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D&D Older Editions
Reconciling 4e's rough edges with Story Now play
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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 9300779" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>A relatively minor point, but I don't feel that 'objective' DCs really have any place in 4e. I know they do 'sort of exist', but in truth I don't think they are a real thing at all. That is, the core DC setting 'thing' is level, and then secondarily 'difficulty'. When SCs are in play that's it, the DCs are all at the level of the PCs and the GM gets to allocate a specific number of difficult checks (I'm working from the RC version, but DMG2 is pretty much identical).</p><p></p><p>So, the only time an 'objective' DC is even theoretically possible is in A) some action a PC takes in combat which triggers a skill/ability check; B) A 'stand-alone' skill check, many of which are likely to be triggered, effectively as defenses. The PHB and DMG1 list a bunch of DCs and modifiers, but essentially these are just text linking specific fictional scenarios with DCs that inevitably mirror the ones in the DC-by-level chart (because otherwise they wouldn't be good DCs to use, too easy or too hard). So, in effect all, for example, the door breaking DCs tell us is what fiction should go with a door that has a DC equivalent to the hard DC for level 10, say. OK, that's an 'iron door'. Whatever, the GM is always going to use the appropriate DC, so it is just a definition of color. The others are likewise, the jumping rules just tell you how big a hole to put in the floor at each level to make things dicey. Likewise the climbing DCs give us a pretty good idea of what low level PCs will face for climbing challenges, and some elements that might add to that fiction at somewhat higher levels.</p><p></p><p>My point being, PCs always (in a game that is run correctly IMHO) face basically the DCs on the DC-by-level chart. Just as an additional interesting point, I think of difficulty in these 'stand alone' checks as similar to effect in BitD. If you are using a really effective 'move', given the fiction, then its easy, if you do something goofy and not so effective, it will be hard. Another approach would be to let the player describe what the stakes are for failure, and the reward for success, and then set easy/medium/hard based on that.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 9300779, member: 82106"] A relatively minor point, but I don't feel that 'objective' DCs really have any place in 4e. I know they do 'sort of exist', but in truth I don't think they are a real thing at all. That is, the core DC setting 'thing' is level, and then secondarily 'difficulty'. When SCs are in play that's it, the DCs are all at the level of the PCs and the GM gets to allocate a specific number of difficult checks (I'm working from the RC version, but DMG2 is pretty much identical). So, the only time an 'objective' DC is even theoretically possible is in A) some action a PC takes in combat which triggers a skill/ability check; B) A 'stand-alone' skill check, many of which are likely to be triggered, effectively as defenses. The PHB and DMG1 list a bunch of DCs and modifiers, but essentially these are just text linking specific fictional scenarios with DCs that inevitably mirror the ones in the DC-by-level chart (because otherwise they wouldn't be good DCs to use, too easy or too hard). So, in effect all, for example, the door breaking DCs tell us is what fiction should go with a door that has a DC equivalent to the hard DC for level 10, say. OK, that's an 'iron door'. Whatever, the GM is always going to use the appropriate DC, so it is just a definition of color. The others are likewise, the jumping rules just tell you how big a hole to put in the floor at each level to make things dicey. Likewise the climbing DCs give us a pretty good idea of what low level PCs will face for climbing challenges, and some elements that might add to that fiction at somewhat higher levels. My point being, PCs always (in a game that is run correctly IMHO) face basically the DCs on the DC-by-level chart. Just as an additional interesting point, I think of difficulty in these 'stand alone' checks as similar to effect in BitD. If you are using a really effective 'move', given the fiction, then its easy, if you do something goofy and not so effective, it will be hard. Another approach would be to let the player describe what the stakes are for failure, and the reward for success, and then set easy/medium/hard based on that. [/QUOTE]
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