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<blockquote data-quote="Justice and Rule" data-source="post: 8434268" data-attributes="member: 6778210"><p>It's a lot more difficult when the corporation is substantially bigger and more powerful. Again, I keep pointing to very draconian social media policies and why people would not want to have a corporation with a long memory on their bad side.</p><p></p><p>And agree to disagree on scale, because the Orion Black thing is, in my opinion, as bad as most any other thing out there.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm not surprised by it, I'm surprised you don't think that carries with it a lot of baggage, not the least of which habits that come from only being in spaces with white men. <em>Candlekeep Adventures </em>is a great example of an attempt that had problems because ed<a href="https://www.dicebreaker.com/games/dungeons-and-dragons-5e/news/dungeons-dragons-candlekeep-mysteries-freelance-alterations" target="_blank">itorial edited down something poorly and inserted stuff that they didn't realize was insensitive</a>.</p><p></p><p>Actually, this feels very reminiscent of Paizo, where it looks like the lower level people are more responsive, but when it goes up the editing chain and bad things happen. I might look it up later, but there was an interesting comment about editorial having a certain conception of D&D, and while it's probably not overtly racist or anything, it almost certainly has a bunch of stuff that if they were consulting with POCs probably would probably not fly.</p><p> </p><p></p><p></p><p>I mean, it seems clear that they are pretty passive about with the MTG Community. The stuff Zaiem talked about eventually got changed, but how long did it take? Are more people getting hired for these spots? I think Austin Walker had a really good quote that works well in these sorts of situations (in general):</p><p></p><p>[MEDIA=twitter]1279497196279345154[/MEDIA]</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No, I'm citing evidence. Those testimonials are <em>absolutely</em> evidence. What you take offense to is that I believe there is <em>more </em>there. To me, it seems logical: there's every indication that there's probably more stuff we just haven't heard about. And a lot of this comes from the Paizo situation.</p><p></p><p>Paizo is incredibly progressive and it shows in their work. Their Mwangi Expanse stuff was just <em>fantastic</em>, they are great on representation and trying to avoid classic bad tropes when it comes to this stuff. They may not always do it, but certain Wizards seems to get caught way more in that regard. And look what Paizo had going on behind the scenes.</p><p></p><p>So given that there's just a bevy of small (and a few big things) out about Wizards... why <em>wouldn't</em> I believe there is more? We're talking about a company where where 16 months ago had stacking scandals regarding how they minority community members get treated and also a minority team member who let loose on his terrible situation. Why would I expect that to be the only thing there?</p><p></p><p>I can't chastise Wizards for stuff I don't know has or hasn't happened, but I don't see why I should think they are all that they are particularly clean. Given how slowly they've been to change, it's hard to think that everything we heard about got turned around in just a year.</p><p></p><p>Edit: As an aside, I do find it funny when I look up how Orion Black's departure was handled here and the first comment is all the recent scandals, big or little, that Wizards was going through since 2019.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Justice and Rule, post: 8434268, member: 6778210"] It's a lot more difficult when the corporation is substantially bigger and more powerful. Again, I keep pointing to very draconian social media policies and why people would not want to have a corporation with a long memory on their bad side. And agree to disagree on scale, because the Orion Black thing is, in my opinion, as bad as most any other thing out there. I'm not surprised by it, I'm surprised you don't think that carries with it a lot of baggage, not the least of which habits that come from only being in spaces with white men. [I]Candlekeep Adventures [/I]is a great example of an attempt that had problems because ed[URL='https://www.dicebreaker.com/games/dungeons-and-dragons-5e/news/dungeons-dragons-candlekeep-mysteries-freelance-alterations']itorial edited down something poorly and inserted stuff that they didn't realize was insensitive[/URL]. Actually, this feels very reminiscent of Paizo, where it looks like the lower level people are more responsive, but when it goes up the editing chain and bad things happen. I might look it up later, but there was an interesting comment about editorial having a certain conception of D&D, and while it's probably not overtly racist or anything, it almost certainly has a bunch of stuff that if they were consulting with POCs probably would probably not fly. I mean, it seems clear that they are pretty passive about with the MTG Community. The stuff Zaiem talked about eventually got changed, but how long did it take? Are more people getting hired for these spots? I think Austin Walker had a really good quote that works well in these sorts of situations (in general): [MEDIA=twitter]1279497196279345154[/MEDIA] No, I'm citing evidence. Those testimonials are [I]absolutely[/I] evidence. What you take offense to is that I believe there is [I]more [/I]there. To me, it seems logical: there's every indication that there's probably more stuff we just haven't heard about. And a lot of this comes from the Paizo situation. Paizo is incredibly progressive and it shows in their work. Their Mwangi Expanse stuff was just [I]fantastic[/I], they are great on representation and trying to avoid classic bad tropes when it comes to this stuff. They may not always do it, but certain Wizards seems to get caught way more in that regard. And look what Paizo had going on behind the scenes. So given that there's just a bevy of small (and a few big things) out about Wizards... why [I]wouldn't[/I] I believe there is more? We're talking about a company where where 16 months ago had stacking scandals regarding how they minority community members get treated and also a minority team member who let loose on his terrible situation. Why would I expect that to be the only thing there? I can't chastise Wizards for stuff I don't know has or hasn't happened, but I don't see why I should think they are all that they are particularly clean. Given how slowly they've been to change, it's hard to think that everything we heard about got turned around in just a year. Edit: As an aside, I do find it funny when I look up how Orion Black's departure was handled here and the first comment is all the recent scandals, big or little, that Wizards was going through since 2019. [/QUOTE]
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