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Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition (A5E)
Level Up Playtest Document #5: Inspiration & Destiny
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<blockquote data-quote="maceochaid" data-source="post: 8118544" data-attributes="member: 6789608"><p>(an earlier version of the post was poorly worded, and sounded as if I was saying the quoted poster was arguing for having detestable themes in her characters and campaigns. This was not my intent, and I have edited it to better explain my point. The quoted poster sounds like they have a very admirable design sense around values they and I share.)</p><p></p><p>Hmmm. I think we're talking past each other. I LIKED the Lawful and Chaotic alignment pieces, and was hoping that we could also let GOOD and EVIL characters get in on this. Your "design for the corner cases" makes me afraid that no Destiny could be written for Good characters by the "but what if I have a terrible player?" standard.</p><p></p><p>Yes the <em>word</em> "devotion" might not always be good, but we're not talking about Mirriam Webster's Devotion. The Devotion <em>rule set</em> in this document in no way presents mechanics for your hypothetical player with a bigoted story in my opinion.</p><p></p><p>When I read the specific mechanics and description of devotion, I don't read it as written for Hitler type characters. AND if someone is a DM who is ok with PC's who like to enact a fantasy of becoming an Elf Hitler, I think that person has a different problem then Devotion having bad mechanics. I am a gay man actively involved in anti-racist education, I agree with you about the nature of Devotion in culture, I just don't know if I really run the risk of characters who want to roll up a Dungeons and Dragons character with that goal in mind.</p><p></p><p>Certainly, as a DM I've written so many campaigns were NPC Paladins are misguided oppressors that my players complained I overused the trope. I just don't have many players who come to my table with this character concept that you describe. "DM my player is devoted to homophobia and will kill any queer NPCs because he falsely believes them to be pedophiles and I consider him Neutral Good, does that work for you?" is something I have never witnessed, and if this is a regular occurrence at someone’s game table, EGADS.</p><p></p><p>As for a Metamorphosis destiny as a fudged destiny for bad guy gone good, it is almost the opposite. For some character turning into a monster to represent their enlightenment, MIGHT work, but it won't ALWAYS work for a player's story. Not every player who has done a star turn role playing a former bounty hunter for the evil Lich king who joined the Gnome freedom fighters and won peace for the Mystic valley will enjoy the option you can turn into a Beholder*, or just not get a feature like everyone else.</p><p></p><p>(*yes I know you suggested I choose a monster that is less "monster" but do a search on DnD beyond for Humanoids CR 14-18, there isn't much. I spent so much time developing my Conquest Paladin to be a great fighter, to just suddenly use Laeral Silverhand's stat block for them doesn't do much for me)</p><p></p><p>Also if I look at the Inspiration feature it also seems like a poor match for bad guy gone good:</p><p></p><p><strong><em>Unearthly Diplomacy.</em></strong><em> Your unearthly aspirations grant you <span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0)">insights into the minds of even utterly alien beings</span>. As an action, you may spend your inspiration to form a connection with a <span style="color: rgb(226, 80, 65)">nonhumanoid</span> creature you can see that has a CR equal to or less than your level. You connect on an emotional level and communicate freely, even if you do not share a language or the creature would be normally unable to speak. You have no control over creatures you connect with in this way but you gain an advantage on checks made to influence them. The knowledge and awareness of many creatures is limited by their intellect or perceptions, but most creatures give you information about nearby locations and monsters, knowledge of whatever they perceived within the past day. This connection lasts for up to 1 hour or until you use an action to end it.</em></p><p></p><p>I don't like this for a Prince Zuko, Catra, Emma Frost, or Kylo Ren character. For a redeemed character to have insight into only non-humanoid would in no way communicate "this guy was evil but now he's good."</p><p></p><p>So I get the initial IDEA you propose, but actually reading through the mechanics, Metamorphosis is personally too much of a stretch for it to be useful of telling the story of a repentant character.</p><p></p><p>Personally, I LOVED the idea behind this whole playtest, and I think you underestimate the creativity of the author to not come up with a feature that could represent that. I think the author did a great job of coming up with ideas that connect to story beats.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="maceochaid, post: 8118544, member: 6789608"] (an earlier version of the post was poorly worded, and sounded as if I was saying the quoted poster was arguing for having detestable themes in her characters and campaigns. This was not my intent, and I have edited it to better explain my point. The quoted poster sounds like they have a very admirable design sense around values they and I share.) Hmmm. I think we're talking past each other. I LIKED the Lawful and Chaotic alignment pieces, and was hoping that we could also let GOOD and EVIL characters get in on this. Your "design for the corner cases" makes me afraid that no Destiny could be written for Good characters by the "but what if I have a terrible player?" standard. Yes the [I]word[/I] "devotion" might not always be good, but we're not talking about Mirriam Webster's Devotion. The Devotion [I]rule set[/I] in this document in no way presents mechanics for your hypothetical player with a bigoted story in my opinion. When I read the specific mechanics and description of devotion, I don't read it as written for Hitler type characters. AND if someone is a DM who is ok with PC's who like to enact a fantasy of becoming an Elf Hitler, I think that person has a different problem then Devotion having bad mechanics. I am a gay man actively involved in anti-racist education, I agree with you about the nature of Devotion in culture, I just don't know if I really run the risk of characters who want to roll up a Dungeons and Dragons character with that goal in mind. Certainly, as a DM I've written so many campaigns were NPC Paladins are misguided oppressors that my players complained I overused the trope. I just don't have many players who come to my table with this character concept that you describe. "DM my player is devoted to homophobia and will kill any queer NPCs because he falsely believes them to be pedophiles and I consider him Neutral Good, does that work for you?" is something I have never witnessed, and if this is a regular occurrence at someone’s game table, EGADS. As for a Metamorphosis destiny as a fudged destiny for bad guy gone good, it is almost the opposite. For some character turning into a monster to represent their enlightenment, MIGHT work, but it won't ALWAYS work for a player's story. Not every player who has done a star turn role playing a former bounty hunter for the evil Lich king who joined the Gnome freedom fighters and won peace for the Mystic valley will enjoy the option you can turn into a Beholder*, or just not get a feature like everyone else. (*yes I know you suggested I choose a monster that is less "monster" but do a search on DnD beyond for Humanoids CR 14-18, there isn't much. I spent so much time developing my Conquest Paladin to be a great fighter, to just suddenly use Laeral Silverhand's stat block for them doesn't do much for me) Also if I look at the Inspiration feature it also seems like a poor match for bad guy gone good: [B][I]Unearthly Diplomacy.[/I][/B][I] Your unearthly aspirations grant you [COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 0)]insights into the minds of even utterly alien beings[/COLOR]. As an action, you may spend your inspiration to form a connection with a [COLOR=rgb(226, 80, 65)]nonhumanoid[/COLOR] creature you can see that has a CR equal to or less than your level. You connect on an emotional level and communicate freely, even if you do not share a language or the creature would be normally unable to speak. You have no control over creatures you connect with in this way but you gain an advantage on checks made to influence them. The knowledge and awareness of many creatures is limited by their intellect or perceptions, but most creatures give you information about nearby locations and monsters, knowledge of whatever they perceived within the past day. This connection lasts for up to 1 hour or until you use an action to end it.[/I] I don't like this for a Prince Zuko, Catra, Emma Frost, or Kylo Ren character. For a redeemed character to have insight into only non-humanoid would in no way communicate "this guy was evil but now he's good." So I get the initial IDEA you propose, but actually reading through the mechanics, Metamorphosis is personally too much of a stretch for it to be useful of telling the story of a repentant character. Personally, I LOVED the idea behind this whole playtest, and I think you underestimate the creativity of the author to not come up with a feature that could represent that. I think the author did a great job of coming up with ideas that connect to story beats. [/QUOTE]
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