Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition (A5E)
Level Up Playtest Document #4: Druid
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 8112703" data-attributes="member: 93670"><p>Don't get me wrong, it's unquestionably an improvement that looks great at first glance but look at the spells it actually allows them to cast & things change fast. It lets them cast spells limited to "spells with a<u> range of Self or Touch,</u> and you can’t cast spells that <u>deal damage</u> or <u>inflict conditions</u>."</p><p>[spoiler="every single druid spell meeting those conditions"]</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Cantrips<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Guidance</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Magic stone: Granted you can't use them but you can be a bird on your bud's shoulder providing them magic stones?</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Mending</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Resistance</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">You could make an argument that you could cast shillelagh on a friend like magic stone since technically the spell s enhancing their weapon not dealing damage. But that' a massive stretch because it does "deal damage" remotely</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">1st level spells<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Absorb Elements</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Cure Wounds</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Goodberry</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Jump</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Longstrider</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Speak with animals</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">2nd level spells<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Barkskin</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Beast Sense</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Darkvision</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Enhance Ability</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Gust of Wind</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Lesser restoration</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Locate animals & plants</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Locate object</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Pass without trace</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Protection from Poison</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">3rd level spells<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Feign Death</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Meld into stone</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Protection from energy</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Speak with plants</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">4th level spells<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Freedom of movement</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Locate Creature</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Stoneshape</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Stoneskin</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">5th level spells<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Awaken</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Commune with nature</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Greater restoration</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Reincarnate</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">scrying</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Tree stride</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">6th level spells<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Find the path</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Druid Grove</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">7th level spells<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Planeshift</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Regenerate</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">8th level spells<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">NONE</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">9th level spells<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Foresight</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Shapechange</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">True Resurection</li> </ul></li> </ul><p>[/spoiler]</p><p>The uses for those are minimal at best when paired with even the improved wildshape for land druids. For a moon druid it's not especially different & light years from making up for the massive nerfs wildshape takes elsewhere. Druid is a complex class with different isolated components that <em>combined</em> make up the core of the class. Restrictions intended to prevent the return of CoDzilla must be put in place as a part of a thought out rather than balanced in isolation as if no other component has any restrictions. It doesn't matter that druids in this form can cast some spells simply because almost none of those spells even rise to the level of mattering even slightly enough to be worth taking wildshape to cast & the edge cases where one might need to unexpectedly cast it while in wildshape are extremely slim even <em>if </em>the druid in question has the perfect spell prepared</p><p></p><p></p><p>That's fine & all but that sort of thing should come with careful "let me make sure wildshape is improved elsewhere to make up for this" & the hit point changes alone should have been a flashing light visible from orbit. We don't know what the new spell list, equipment, & so on will eventually look like; but we do know that the current druid without those things makes the likely A:C ratio troubling</p><p></p><p>edit: The range: self or touch alone filters out a huge number of spells that would otherwise meet the requirements. Those spells might not make it meaningful improvement but at least they might occasionally be useful enough to remember it can be done.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="tetrasodium, post: 8112703, member: 93670"] Don't get me wrong, it's unquestionably an improvement that looks great at first glance but look at the spells it actually allows them to cast & things change fast. It lets them cast spells limited to "spells with a[U] range of Self or Touch,[/U] and you can’t cast spells that [U]deal damage[/U] or [U]inflict conditions[/U]." [spoiler="every single druid spell meeting those conditions"] [LIST] [*]Cantrips [LIST] [*]Guidance [*]Magic stone: Granted you can't use them but you can be a bird on your bud's shoulder providing them magic stones? [*]Mending [*]Resistance [*]You could make an argument that you could cast shillelagh on a friend like magic stone since technically the spell s enhancing their weapon not dealing damage. But that' a massive stretch because it does "deal damage" remotely [/LIST] [*]1st level spells [LIST] [*]Absorb Elements [*]Cure Wounds [*]Goodberry [*]Jump [*]Longstrider [*]Speak with animals [/LIST] [*]2nd level spells [LIST] [*]Barkskin [*]Beast Sense [*]Darkvision [*]Enhance Ability [*]Gust of Wind [*]Lesser restoration [*]Locate animals & plants [*]Locate object [*]Pass without trace [*]Protection from Poison [/LIST] [*]3rd level spells [LIST] [*]Feign Death [*]Meld into stone [*]Protection from energy [*]Speak with plants [/LIST] [*]4th level spells [LIST] [*]Freedom of movement [*]Locate Creature [*]Stoneshape [*]Stoneskin [/LIST] [*]5th level spells [LIST] [*]Awaken [*]Commune with nature [*]Greater restoration [*]Reincarnate [*]scrying [*]Tree stride [/LIST] [*]6th level spells [LIST] [*]Find the path [*]Druid Grove [/LIST] [*]7th level spells [LIST] [*]Planeshift [*]Regenerate [/LIST] [*]8th level spells [LIST] [*]NONE [/LIST] [*]9th level spells [LIST] [*]Foresight [*]Shapechange [*]True Resurection [/LIST] [/LIST] [/spoiler] The uses for those are minimal at best when paired with even the improved wildshape for land druids. For a moon druid it's not especially different & light years from making up for the massive nerfs wildshape takes elsewhere. Druid is a complex class with different isolated components that [I]combined[/I] make up the core of the class. Restrictions intended to prevent the return of CoDzilla must be put in place as a part of a thought out rather than balanced in isolation as if no other component has any restrictions. It doesn't matter that druids in this form can cast some spells simply because almost none of those spells even rise to the level of mattering even slightly enough to be worth taking wildshape to cast & the edge cases where one might need to unexpectedly cast it while in wildshape are extremely slim even [I]if [/I]the druid in question has the perfect spell prepared That's fine & all but that sort of thing should come with careful "let me make sure wildshape is improved elsewhere to make up for this" & the hit point changes alone should have been a flashing light visible from orbit. We don't know what the new spell list, equipment, & so on will eventually look like; but we do know that the current druid without those things makes the likely A:C ratio troubling edit: The range: self or touch alone filters out a huge number of spells that would otherwise meet the requirements. Those spells might not make it meaningful improvement but at least they might occasionally be useful enough to remember it can be done. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition (A5E)
Level Up Playtest Document #4: Druid
Top