Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition (A5E)
Level Up Playtest Document #3: Rogue
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 8101048" data-attributes="member: 93670"><p>Indeed, it's technically something you could always do... <em>if </em>the gm allowed it... but the rules never made it particularly clear how/if to adjudicate it & there is the additional bar where that a player doesn't always have the social background to grok it.</p><p></p><p>[USER=6915329]@Jessica Wolfman[/USER] you go from saying "a lot of people use the Rogue as a stand-in for nonmagical expert (since Bards, the other good choice for Expert, are very magical)." to suggesting rogues have the ability to get the campaign's important magical know stuff skill from int/wis based classes with those skills too. Seems more than a little out of place to add it to the rogue when your just came off explaining why it shouldn't be there. If a rogue player feels like they need one of those skills there are background options that makes the choice fit the campaign. People always say that backgrounds allow players to get skills they wouldn't normally be allowed in order to fit new mold shapes, let the backgrounds do that.</p><p></p><p>The "but my swashbuckler..." complaint misses how problematic that near munchkin level rakish audacity ability is & you do it unintentionally by saying "she gets her sneak attacks in 1v1 combat, not from hiding" because it doesn't change sneak attack to work 1v1 it just adds nearly every other situation where you don't automatically get sneak attack through working with a flanking buddy with the exception of "wow that's a nice cluster of baddies for a fireball". Hopefully that is something they manage to avoid & the amount of reciprocity baked into stuff so far makes me think I don't have anything to worry about there. Personally I kinda wish the sneak attack wording was reverted to be more like the past when certain creature types were explicitly not something it could work on as <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/rogue-playtest-nitty-gritty-feedback.675151/" target="_blank">others have noted</a> but 5e makes things like that difficult until we get to things like a5e's feats that allow loopholes & modifications to be added back to that immune</p><p></p><p>Fighters don't get improved crit because they get higher damage dice, extra attacks, & abilities that give them better odds when hitting or more damage when hitting. combining both is problematic but the loss of crit fishing builds (<em>among other things deemed badwrongfun like DR)</em> is problematic in a lot of ways for 5e. Level 5 is a good level for it that avoids the front loaded scorlock MC is better than straight $class problem while allowing it to be gained at a level where it will get significant use in the campaign that still allows for multiclass options.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="tetrasodium, post: 8101048, member: 93670"] Indeed, it's technically something you could always do... [I]if [/I]the gm allowed it... but the rules never made it particularly clear how/if to adjudicate it & there is the additional bar where that a player doesn't always have the social background to grok it. [USER=6915329]@Jessica Wolfman[/USER] you go from saying "a lot of people use the Rogue as a stand-in for nonmagical expert (since Bards, the other good choice for Expert, are very magical)." to suggesting rogues have the ability to get the campaign's important magical know stuff skill from int/wis based classes with those skills too. Seems more than a little out of place to add it to the rogue when your just came off explaining why it shouldn't be there. If a rogue player feels like they need one of those skills there are background options that makes the choice fit the campaign. People always say that backgrounds allow players to get skills they wouldn't normally be allowed in order to fit new mold shapes, let the backgrounds do that. The "but my swashbuckler..." complaint misses how problematic that near munchkin level rakish audacity ability is & you do it unintentionally by saying "she gets her sneak attacks in 1v1 combat, not from hiding" because it doesn't change sneak attack to work 1v1 it just adds nearly every other situation where you don't automatically get sneak attack through working with a flanking buddy with the exception of "wow that's a nice cluster of baddies for a fireball". Hopefully that is something they manage to avoid & the amount of reciprocity baked into stuff so far makes me think I don't have anything to worry about there. Personally I kinda wish the sneak attack wording was reverted to be more like the past when certain creature types were explicitly not something it could work on as [URL='https://www.enworld.org/threads/rogue-playtest-nitty-gritty-feedback.675151/']others have noted[/URL] but 5e makes things like that difficult until we get to things like a5e's feats that allow loopholes & modifications to be added back to that immune Fighters don't get improved crit because they get higher damage dice, extra attacks, & abilities that give them better odds when hitting or more damage when hitting. combining both is problematic but the loss of crit fishing builds ([I]among other things deemed badwrongfun like DR)[/I] is problematic in a lot of ways for 5e. Level 5 is a good level for it that avoids the front loaded scorlock MC is better than straight $class problem while allowing it to be gained at a level where it will get significant use in the campaign that still allows for multiclass options. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition (A5E)
Level Up Playtest Document #3: Rogue
Top