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<blockquote data-quote="Radiating Gnome" data-source="post: 9195216" data-attributes="member: 150"><p><h3>Round 2 Match 2 [USER=7023840]@Snarf Zagyg[/USER] vs [USER=60965]@Iron Sky[/USER]</h3><p></p><p>And the next battle of the heavyweights begins. We have Snarf Zagyg’s Everyone’s Gone to the Rageture (Rage) and Iron Sky’s The Dooms of Songport (Dooms). Should be a good match.</p><p></p><p>So, let’s start with the ingredients.</p><p></p><h3>Ingredients</h3><p></p><p><strong>Scary Stickers</strong> - In Rage, the closest thing I’m seeing to “stickers” is the sticks of gum used in the game mechanics. I could be missing something, but that’s all I’ve found on a couple of read-throughs. I don’t mind the idea of the game mechanic itself, it sounds like fun, but it’s a stretch to make this fit the ingredient.</p><p></p><p>In Dooms, we have classic stickers — sticky parchment slips that (I think) will transform bears into owlbears. The one on Grayfur is even imbued with a fear spell, making it literally scary. It’s very on the nose, but it’s certainly a solid use of the ingredient. So, advantage to Dooms.</p><p></p><p><strong>City in a Bottle</strong> - In Dooms, the city of Songport is literally in a bottle, and restoring the city is one of the main points of the adventure. Rage, on the other hand has a city that is a prison created by bears — a city that has trapped humanity by convincing them that the outside world is dangerous. Dooms is on the nose again — while Rage’s bottle is metaphor. Or, perhaps I’m meant to read it as the city’s being “in the bottle” is represented by the cauldron that holds the city’s fate. Either way, it’s a step away from clear to me. Maybe I need more coffee. For this ingredient, I’m going to call it a wash — but as I work through this I’m worried about a trend in each entry. In Dooms, I’m worried that the ingredients will be presented through a very kitchen-sink sort of method — all of the ingredients are present because the adventure makes room for everything to be there — which can work, but it risks being too big, too unconnected, and chaotic to also be a tight adventure. In Rage, I’m worried that what I’m seeing is I’m going to have to squint to see the ingredients represented in the adventure, that the use will be overly figurative and metaphoric. And, don’t get me wrong, I LOVE a good twist on ingredients when it works. But I hope it all works.</p><p></p><p><strong>Misunderstood Owlbear</strong> - Both adventures have Owlbears. In Rage, we have Grizzlyhoot, the owlbear leader of the faction outside the city. In Dooms, we have Grayfur, the sticker-morphed bear turned monstrous owlbear that can be reverted to his natural form if the PCs can get the sticker off his back. So, while we both have owlbears, it feels to me like there isn’t a lot that is misunderstood about Grizzlyhoot. The humans are deceived by the magic and deception that keeps them believing in the radiation, but that isn’t really the same thing. Grayfur is not himself, his rage is a product of the sticker that made him an owlbear, which fits misunderstood a bit better. So, advantage to Dooms.</p><p></p><p><strong>Copper Kettle</strong> - In Dooms, we have the Copper Kettle, the magic water thing that can purify the fountain and restore the city. It’s there, for sure, but again, I found this one a bit disappointing. We’ve attached the word copper to the kettle, but it doesn’t ever seem to matter that it’s copper. And we are calling it a kettle, but it doesn’t ever matter than it’s a kettle and not some other sort of water bottle. A kettle’s specific purpose — to boil water — doesn’t seem to come into the equation in a significant way.</p><p></p><p>There’s a similar challenge in Rage, where the copper kettle has become the Copper Cauldron. It’s the the source of the material that Grizzlyhoot uses to make “rad shades” and if it’s emptied and returned to the city humanity can be freed. Once again, it doesn’t ever seem to matter that the cauldron is copper, and in this case it’s not even a kettle. I’m feeling REALLY pedantic when I grouse about the idea that a cauldron and a kettle are not the same things — I mean, they’re both used to boil things, right? But, I’m not charmed or amused by the sleight of hand in making one into the other in this case.</p><p></p><p>Feeling blah about both entries on this ingredient, I’m going to call it a wash.</p><p></p><p><strong>Sword of Echoing Sin</strong> - In Dooms, there’s a sword. It’s given to the PCs by the bard who gives them the mission, and it’s magic reveals the “sins” committed nearby. Cool, useful in the story, and on the nose again. In Rage, the sword isn’t a sword. It’s a missle that has an awkward anagram naming it sword, and it’s “echoing sins” is that it’s a relic of the war that destroyed the human world. And, just to prove that humanity isn’t the only petty and destructive force in the universe, Grizzlyhoot uses the S.W.O.R.D to destroy the city if the PCs succeed.</p><p></p><p>I find myself echoing previous comments here. Naming a tactical nuke “sword” doesn’t make it a good fit for the ingredient. So, again, advantage goes to Dooms.</p><p></p><p><strong>Uncaring Bears</strong> - So, Rage has bears. Owl/bear hybrids, mostly referred to as bears, but bears nontheless. Let by Grizzlyhoot they’ve enslaved humanity through trickery, and they don’t particularly care for human problems. Totally got this ingredient.</p><p></p><p>In Rage, the bears are there, and they’re also uncaring. They need to be coaxed or otherwise convinced to help the PCs find Grayfur.</p><p></p><p>I think both really work, which is a relief, but I also don’t see one as stronger than the other, so it’s a wash.</p><p></p><p><strong>Silent Choir</strong> - This is the sort of ingredient I love to see what contestants will do with — the obvious negation in the concept needs to find expression where it makes sense, etc.</p><p></p><p>In Dooms, the silenced choirs show up in a couple of ways, most specifically in the guise of the packs of silenced banshees dressed as members of the choir. While I have questions about the threat posed by a silent banshee, it still works in a solid, on the nose way.</p><p></p><p>In Rage, the closest thing I found to this ingredient was the sonic dogs, who appear along at first but if they get started the rest of the pack arrives. I’ll take it as a stretch, but the challenge here is that the sonic dogs are a tacked on ingredient that doesn’t really connect to the story outside of being a speed bump to set the scene for the PCs. So, acceptable but not especially strong.</p><p></p><p>So, advantage to Dooms again.</p><p></p><p>Overall, I’ve clearly been a lot happier with the use of ingredient use in Dooms, which is a pretty strong recommendation, but that’s not the only thing that matters, of course. The ingredient use in</p><p><em>Judges note: Rage is the sort of thing that has me continuing to go back to the entry hunting for some subtle use I've missed, and I'm the first person to admit that it's entirely possible that I HAVE missed something, but it probably shouldn't be so hard to find them if I have missed something. </em></p><p></p><h3>Creativity & Playability</h3><p>I’ve come down pretty hard on the way I felt like ingredients were being used in Rage. But the story, and the game, is pretty good — a nice tight little one-shot, playable and creative and fun. I snickered at Rad Shades. I wanted to understand a few details better — like, if there is no background radiation, what are the rad shades filtering out? The rad shades have very concrete game effect, so there must be something in the world of the story that they shield the wearer from.</p><p></p><p>Meanwhile, Dooms, is a bigger, more expansive sort of story, probably an entire arc of multiple sessions. That’s not necessarily a bad thing, but it can make an entry feel looser. And I think that’s evident here. I understand that the players need to navigate the space between the two rival druid factions, and that somehow Songport became part of that ongoing struggle. Songport is on the Songshore lake, which the inclusives see as the source of the fungal sports that are causing so much havoc, but the inclusives seem to be in support of that? The inclusives trapped Songport in their bottle (notably not destroying it) because they think humanity is encroaching on the natural world</p><p></p><p>Having said that, I dig the natural/inclusive axis of the adventure, and I think that it would be fun to see how various tables approach this — arguably, the inclusive side, while presented as the villains in this piece, is the side that cleaves closer to the more accepting liberal cultural politics we enjoy today — until they start explaining that they want to use these hybrids as shields against other enemies — so, essentially second class citizens at best. Between genocide (nautrals) and abuse (inclusives), what’s the right choice?</p><p></p><p>That’s a spicy meatball. Good times.</p><p></p><h3>Final Vote</h3><p>[spoiler]</p><p>I liked both adventures, but I don’t think it’s a surprise at this point in my review that I was more taken by Dooms. Between more successful use of ingredients and a very engaging socio/political situation, I think it’s the stronger of the two entries.</p><p></p><p>Rage is still an excellent piece, and I’d love to sit down at a table and play it — and I don’t even like bubble gum (would that give me an unfair advantage?)</p><p></p><p></p><p>[/spoiler]</p><p></p><p>Thank you, Snarf and Sky!</p><p></p><p>-rg</p><p></p><p><em>Edit: Mea Culpa</em></p><p>[spoiler]</p><p><em>I need to add to this a note that indicates that I've had my mistake pointed out to me -- that my definition of kettle was too narrow and inaccurate, and I was unfair to Rage over the use of Cauldron for Kettle. </em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>My reading of things did not make the ingredients use a close thing, so giving too little credit to Rage did not unduly impact my final decision, but I thought I should put in a note here. Of course, the nature of Iron DM is that it's subjective -- which is why we have three judges for all but the first round. </em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>So, I should have done better. I appreciate the opportunity to learn. </em></p><p><em>-rg</em></p><p>[/spoiler]</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Radiating Gnome, post: 9195216, member: 150"] [HEADING=2]Round 2 Match 2 [USER=7023840]@Snarf Zagyg[/USER] vs [USER=60965]@Iron Sky[/USER][/HEADING] And the next battle of the heavyweights begins. We have Snarf Zagyg’s Everyone’s Gone to the Rageture (Rage) and Iron Sky’s The Dooms of Songport (Dooms). Should be a good match. So, let’s start with the ingredients. [HEADING=2]Ingredients[/HEADING] [B]Scary Stickers[/B] - In Rage, the closest thing I’m seeing to “stickers” is the sticks of gum used in the game mechanics. I could be missing something, but that’s all I’ve found on a couple of read-throughs. I don’t mind the idea of the game mechanic itself, it sounds like fun, but it’s a stretch to make this fit the ingredient. In Dooms, we have classic stickers — sticky parchment slips that (I think) will transform bears into owlbears. The one on Grayfur is even imbued with a fear spell, making it literally scary. It’s very on the nose, but it’s certainly a solid use of the ingredient. So, advantage to Dooms. [B]City in a Bottle[/B] - In Dooms, the city of Songport is literally in a bottle, and restoring the city is one of the main points of the adventure. Rage, on the other hand has a city that is a prison created by bears — a city that has trapped humanity by convincing them that the outside world is dangerous. Dooms is on the nose again — while Rage’s bottle is metaphor. Or, perhaps I’m meant to read it as the city’s being “in the bottle” is represented by the cauldron that holds the city’s fate. Either way, it’s a step away from clear to me. Maybe I need more coffee. For this ingredient, I’m going to call it a wash — but as I work through this I’m worried about a trend in each entry. In Dooms, I’m worried that the ingredients will be presented through a very kitchen-sink sort of method — all of the ingredients are present because the adventure makes room for everything to be there — which can work, but it risks being too big, too unconnected, and chaotic to also be a tight adventure. In Rage, I’m worried that what I’m seeing is I’m going to have to squint to see the ingredients represented in the adventure, that the use will be overly figurative and metaphoric. And, don’t get me wrong, I LOVE a good twist on ingredients when it works. But I hope it all works. [B]Misunderstood Owlbear[/B] - Both adventures have Owlbears. In Rage, we have Grizzlyhoot, the owlbear leader of the faction outside the city. In Dooms, we have Grayfur, the sticker-morphed bear turned monstrous owlbear that can be reverted to his natural form if the PCs can get the sticker off his back. So, while we both have owlbears, it feels to me like there isn’t a lot that is misunderstood about Grizzlyhoot. The humans are deceived by the magic and deception that keeps them believing in the radiation, but that isn’t really the same thing. Grayfur is not himself, his rage is a product of the sticker that made him an owlbear, which fits misunderstood a bit better. So, advantage to Dooms. [B]Copper Kettle[/B] - In Dooms, we have the Copper Kettle, the magic water thing that can purify the fountain and restore the city. It’s there, for sure, but again, I found this one a bit disappointing. We’ve attached the word copper to the kettle, but it doesn’t ever seem to matter that it’s copper. And we are calling it a kettle, but it doesn’t ever matter than it’s a kettle and not some other sort of water bottle. A kettle’s specific purpose — to boil water — doesn’t seem to come into the equation in a significant way. There’s a similar challenge in Rage, where the copper kettle has become the Copper Cauldron. It’s the the source of the material that Grizzlyhoot uses to make “rad shades” and if it’s emptied and returned to the city humanity can be freed. Once again, it doesn’t ever seem to matter that the cauldron is copper, and in this case it’s not even a kettle. I’m feeling REALLY pedantic when I grouse about the idea that a cauldron and a kettle are not the same things — I mean, they’re both used to boil things, right? But, I’m not charmed or amused by the sleight of hand in making one into the other in this case. Feeling blah about both entries on this ingredient, I’m going to call it a wash. [B]Sword of Echoing Sin[/B] - In Dooms, there’s a sword. It’s given to the PCs by the bard who gives them the mission, and it’s magic reveals the “sins” committed nearby. Cool, useful in the story, and on the nose again. In Rage, the sword isn’t a sword. It’s a missle that has an awkward anagram naming it sword, and it’s “echoing sins” is that it’s a relic of the war that destroyed the human world. And, just to prove that humanity isn’t the only petty and destructive force in the universe, Grizzlyhoot uses the S.W.O.R.D to destroy the city if the PCs succeed. I find myself echoing previous comments here. Naming a tactical nuke “sword” doesn’t make it a good fit for the ingredient. So, again, advantage goes to Dooms. [B]Uncaring Bears[/B] - So, Rage has bears. Owl/bear hybrids, mostly referred to as bears, but bears nontheless. Let by Grizzlyhoot they’ve enslaved humanity through trickery, and they don’t particularly care for human problems. Totally got this ingredient. In Rage, the bears are there, and they’re also uncaring. They need to be coaxed or otherwise convinced to help the PCs find Grayfur. I think both really work, which is a relief, but I also don’t see one as stronger than the other, so it’s a wash. [B]Silent Choir[/B] - This is the sort of ingredient I love to see what contestants will do with — the obvious negation in the concept needs to find expression where it makes sense, etc. In Dooms, the silenced choirs show up in a couple of ways, most specifically in the guise of the packs of silenced banshees dressed as members of the choir. While I have questions about the threat posed by a silent banshee, it still works in a solid, on the nose way. In Rage, the closest thing I found to this ingredient was the sonic dogs, who appear along at first but if they get started the rest of the pack arrives. I’ll take it as a stretch, but the challenge here is that the sonic dogs are a tacked on ingredient that doesn’t really connect to the story outside of being a speed bump to set the scene for the PCs. So, acceptable but not especially strong. So, advantage to Dooms again. Overall, I’ve clearly been a lot happier with the use of ingredient use in Dooms, which is a pretty strong recommendation, but that’s not the only thing that matters, of course. The ingredient use in [I]Judges note: Rage is the sort of thing that has me continuing to go back to the entry hunting for some subtle use I've missed, and I'm the first person to admit that it's entirely possible that I HAVE missed something, but it probably shouldn't be so hard to find them if I have missed something. [/I] [HEADING=2]Creativity & Playability[/HEADING] I’ve come down pretty hard on the way I felt like ingredients were being used in Rage. But the story, and the game, is pretty good — a nice tight little one-shot, playable and creative and fun. I snickered at Rad Shades. I wanted to understand a few details better — like, if there is no background radiation, what are the rad shades filtering out? The rad shades have very concrete game effect, so there must be something in the world of the story that they shield the wearer from. Meanwhile, Dooms, is a bigger, more expansive sort of story, probably an entire arc of multiple sessions. That’s not necessarily a bad thing, but it can make an entry feel looser. And I think that’s evident here. I understand that the players need to navigate the space between the two rival druid factions, and that somehow Songport became part of that ongoing struggle. Songport is on the Songshore lake, which the inclusives see as the source of the fungal sports that are causing so much havoc, but the inclusives seem to be in support of that? The inclusives trapped Songport in their bottle (notably not destroying it) because they think humanity is encroaching on the natural world Having said that, I dig the natural/inclusive axis of the adventure, and I think that it would be fun to see how various tables approach this — arguably, the inclusive side, while presented as the villains in this piece, is the side that cleaves closer to the more accepting liberal cultural politics we enjoy today — until they start explaining that they want to use these hybrids as shields against other enemies — so, essentially second class citizens at best. Between genocide (nautrals) and abuse (inclusives), what’s the right choice? That’s a spicy meatball. Good times. [HEADING=2]Final Vote[/HEADING] [spoiler] I liked both adventures, but I don’t think it’s a surprise at this point in my review that I was more taken by Dooms. Between more successful use of ingredients and a very engaging socio/political situation, I think it’s the stronger of the two entries. Rage is still an excellent piece, and I’d love to sit down at a table and play it — and I don’t even like bubble gum (would that give me an unfair advantage?) [/spoiler] Thank you, Snarf and Sky! -rg [I]Edit: Mea Culpa[/I] [spoiler] [I]I need to add to this a note that indicates that I've had my mistake pointed out to me -- that my definition of kettle was too narrow and inaccurate, and I was unfair to Rage over the use of Cauldron for Kettle. My reading of things did not make the ingredients use a close thing, so giving too little credit to Rage did not unduly impact my final decision, but I thought I should put in a note here. Of course, the nature of Iron DM is that it's subjective -- which is why we have three judges for all but the first round. So, I should have done better. I appreciate the opportunity to learn. -rg[/I] [/spoiler] [/QUOTE]
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