D&D 2E Guidance on comparing 2e HD (or XP) to 5e CR (or XP)

[TheSwartz]

I know this has got to be out there somewhere, but my Google searching is not helping me out. And, I've checked the 4 page D&D 5e conversion PDF.

I'm looking for a rough approximation for comparing monsters in AD&D 2e to D&D 5e using the HD (and/or XP) and comparing to CR (and/or XP).

I know there are ALL KINDS of caveats, etc. And, believe me, this is only one factor amongst many that I want to use. And, it may not be helpful and may not change that I'll use the same exact monster anyway, but I'm curious.

For example, the "Mature Adult" Shadow Dragon in Night Below is HD 15 with 18,000 XP and 168,570 gp worth of treasure (not counting magic items). There is a Shadow Dragon template in the MM, and if I just start out with the base Adult Red Dragon, that is already a CR of 17. I'm not perfectly clear yet how to use the Shadow Dragon template, but by the example, I'm guessing this turns it into a CR 20 (24,500 XP).

This guy (Fandruzsch) is supposed to be tough! But, I just want to have a general idea if and how much this guys is tougher or weaker, or about expected from what the original encounter called for.

Thanks!

 

[Zardnaar]

Not comparable and 2E shadow dragons are some of the worst monsters ever invented. A 2E dragon is a tpk waiting to happen.

 

[Fanaelialae]

I know this has got to be out there somewhere, but my Google searching is not helping me out. And, I've checked the 4 page D&D 5e conversion PDF.

I'm looking for a rough approximation for comparing monsters in AD&D 2e to D&D 5e using the HD (and/or XP) and comparing to CR (and/or XP).

I know there are ALL KINDS of caveats, etc. And, believe me, this is only one factor amongst many that I want to use. And, it may not be helpful and may not change that I'll use the same exact monster anyway, but I'm curious.

For example, the "Mature Adult" Shadow Dragon in Night Below is HD 15 with 18,000 XP and 168,570 gp worth of treasure (not counting magic items). There is a Shadow Dragon template in the MM, and if I just start out with the base Adult Red Dragon, that is already a CR of 17. I'm not perfectly clear yet how to use the Shadow Dragon template, but by the example, I'm guessing this turns it into a CR 20 (24,500 XP).

This guy (Fandruzsch) is supposed to be tough! But, I just want to have a general idea if and how much this guys is tougher or weaker, or about expected from what the original encounter called for.

Thanks!

I'm not aware of any such guidelines. However, there are a number of conversion guides on DM's Guild (including several that are pay what you want). http://www.dmsguild.com/browse.php?keywords=Conversion&x=0&y=0&author=&artist=&pfrom=&pto= You might be able to reverse engineer the approach that others have used.

 

[guachi]

If the creature has special powers then HD = CR is a decent place to start. By "special powers" I mean anything in D&D (not AD&D) that would have given an asterisk next to the listed HD. More asterisks and therefore more special powers and I'd crank up the CR.

I don't know the special powers of a Shadow Dragon but I'd imagine it's a few. So a CR above 15 isn't unwarranted. After I have a CR I look for the HD that similar CR creatures have to determine HP. Generally, you can at least double the HD from D&D or AD&D.

 

[Jester David]

I converted a whole bunch of 2e Ravenloft monsters to 5e and what I realised is that it's best to just mostky ignore 2e Hit Dice and completely ignore 5e Challenge Rating in the process.

2e didn't really have expected encounter difficulty, and HD was a poor gauge of that. So there's not really a direct comparison between the two. When designing encounters in 2e, HD helped, but that was because there was no real other guidelines short of XP, which was pretty arbitrary.

Generally, when converting monsters, I just doubled the Hit Dice. Then I assigned stats where they seemed appropriate. Damage was mostly converted directly, unless a monster had a lot of Hit Dice and low damage, at which point I tried to buff it up a little.
When I was happy with the general numbers, only then did I really look at CR, calculating it based on the guidelines in the DMG.

 

[Sacrosanct]

I don't think there is a template because there really can't be one since so many of the stats don't align. I.e., if you try to align HP range, the damage won't match up. Or the AC won't match. A lot of this is because things like HP ranges in 2e are much different than in 5e. For example, a 10th level magic user in AD&D is only going to have about 25 hit points. A 10th level wizard in 5e is going to have 42--almost double.

If I were to try to do something like that without going by gut feeling of what feels right (which is what I usually do), I'd look at HD like levels. For example:

AD&D ogre has 4+1 HD. An ogre is a martial combat type, so that would be like a 4th level 5e fighter with +3 hp per die (to reflect a higher Constitution). So that's 10+6+6+6 base hp, + 12 for Con = 40 HP. AC of 5 in AD&D is 15 in 5e. Damage is 1d10+4 for a strength bonus.

How does that compare to a 5e ogre of AC 11, 59 HP, and 2d8+4 damage? Pretty close. Lower HP, but better AC. Not perfect at all, but that's about as close I could probably get.