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Echo Knight is Wildemount's Most Popular Subclass
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<blockquote data-quote="jgsugden" data-source="post: 8006229" data-attributes="member: 2629"><p>This was addressed extensively. And, as noted, it is a whiteboard problem, not an actual gameplay problem. </p><p></p><p>Teleporting past a locked gate - rather than picking a lock or breaking the gate down - cool, not game breaking.</p><p>Teleporting across a 15 foot wide gap - rather than leaping over it - cool, not game breaking.</p><p>Teleporting up a 15' cliff - rather than climbing it - cool, not game breaking.</p><p>Teleporting past a trap - rather than walking around it, disarming it, or otherwise evading it - cool, not game breaking.</p><p></p><p>That is not to say that there are not places where the Echo Knight can do something that the DM may not have intended to be possible. You get it at 3rd level - when misty step is available - and most of what you can do with the Echo Knight in the exploration tier is pretty much something that can be done with Misty Step. And as those things will be few and far between, the ability to do them over and over is nearly meaningless. </p><p></p><p>In my party that has the Echo Knight, only the Echo Knight can use these techniques to bypass challenges. The rest of the group has to find other solutions. The dwarf druid with <em>mold earth</em> filled chasms, built mounds to walk up, bypassed locked areas and traps, etc... for the entire party. The dungeon setting had to be right for that, but it was one of those situations where that cantrip was uber useful. </p><p></p><p>Here are the most powerful uses of the ability I saw:</p><p></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Drawing fire. There were several situations in which the image drew a spell, a big attack or other single use or recharge ability away from other targets.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Avoiding attacking through cover. The image was able to position itself in a way to avoid attacking through cover, even though it was exposed to danger, while the fighter stayed in a covered position that had full visibility.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The extra attacks, obviously. Both the Unleash Incarnation and the extra OAs. The fighter has a 16 con, so there were a lot of extra attacks there, a lot like a war priest, especially at low levels.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Scouting after 7th level was obtained. With no ability to hide, this announced the presence of the party wherever it went. Still useful in some situations, although it caused more trouble than it prevented at first.</li> </ul><p></p><p>However: </p><p></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The amount of time this subclass requires your bonus action is painful. The fighter went down a few times because he made the choice to use the bonus action on the echo rather than second wind.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">We've mentioned the circumstances in which damage auras make the echo knight abilities useless.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">There were a lot of combats where the echo knight's subclass did absolutely nothing beneficial for the party. The extra attack was not available or otherwise unusued, and the fighter could have attacked just as easily. It didn't even lock down OAs better. It might as well not have been there.</li> </ul></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="jgsugden, post: 8006229, member: 2629"] This was addressed extensively. And, as noted, it is a whiteboard problem, not an actual gameplay problem. Teleporting past a locked gate - rather than picking a lock or breaking the gate down - cool, not game breaking. Teleporting across a 15 foot wide gap - rather than leaping over it - cool, not game breaking. Teleporting up a 15' cliff - rather than climbing it - cool, not game breaking. Teleporting past a trap - rather than walking around it, disarming it, or otherwise evading it - cool, not game breaking. That is not to say that there are not places where the Echo Knight can do something that the DM may not have intended to be possible. You get it at 3rd level - when misty step is available - and most of what you can do with the Echo Knight in the exploration tier is pretty much something that can be done with Misty Step. And as those things will be few and far between, the ability to do them over and over is nearly meaningless. In my party that has the Echo Knight, only the Echo Knight can use these techniques to bypass challenges. The rest of the group has to find other solutions. The dwarf druid with [I]mold earth[/I] filled chasms, built mounds to walk up, bypassed locked areas and traps, etc... for the entire party. The dungeon setting had to be right for that, but it was one of those situations where that cantrip was uber useful. Here are the most powerful uses of the ability I saw: [LIST] [*]Drawing fire. There were several situations in which the image drew a spell, a big attack or other single use or recharge ability away from other targets. [*]Avoiding attacking through cover. The image was able to position itself in a way to avoid attacking through cover, even though it was exposed to danger, while the fighter stayed in a covered position that had full visibility. [*]The extra attacks, obviously. Both the Unleash Incarnation and the extra OAs. The fighter has a 16 con, so there were a lot of extra attacks there, a lot like a war priest, especially at low levels. [*]Scouting after 7th level was obtained. With no ability to hide, this announced the presence of the party wherever it went. Still useful in some situations, although it caused more trouble than it prevented at first. [/LIST] However: [LIST] [*]The amount of time this subclass requires your bonus action is painful. The fighter went down a few times because he made the choice to use the bonus action on the echo rather than second wind. [*]We've mentioned the circumstances in which damage auras make the echo knight abilities useless. [*]There were a lot of combats where the echo knight's subclass did absolutely nothing beneficial for the party. The extra attack was not available or otherwise unusued, and the fighter could have attacked just as easily. It didn't even lock down OAs better. It might as well not have been there. [/LIST] [/QUOTE]
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