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<blockquote data-quote="UngeheuerLich" data-source="post: 9325689" data-attributes="member: 59057"><p>For the record. I did not say that I have a problem with the fighter being magical or supernatural or whatever. I specifically told you that "come and get it" is just a poster child for what was problematic about 4e for many of us who played that game, because it combines all those elements: </p><p>powers that: </p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">not always (easily) make sense in the narrative and require some creative storytelling</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">are always expected to work</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">are heavily dependent on the battlemap.</li> </ul><p></p><p>You don't speak of critics. You speak of people who demonized the game from day 1. They picked a class and ranted because they were very angry about wotc taking 3.5 away. </p><p></p><p>Because that is not what many people criticize. </p><p></p><p>That is sad. But it is also your perception of it. One is allowed to speak about their experience with the game and why it ultimately did not work for them. </p><p></p><p>I can actually understand parts of your anger. While I played 4e and tried to make it work, people in my vicinity ranted about exactly those strawmans before even playing it. Also without seeing the strength of 4e:</p><p>-the fighter base class (without any powers) being able to keep enemies on them.</p><p>-hp recovery that makes sense and helps fighters be relevant. </p><p>-interesting fighter abilites, not just standing around an do x damage. </p><p></p><p>And so on.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="UngeheuerLich, post: 9325689, member: 59057"] For the record. I did not say that I have a problem with the fighter being magical or supernatural or whatever. I specifically told you that "come and get it" is just a poster child for what was problematic about 4e for many of us who played that game, because it combines all those elements: powers that: [LIST] [*]not always (easily) make sense in the narrative and require some creative storytelling [*]are always expected to work [*]are heavily dependent on the battlemap. [/LIST] You don't speak of critics. You speak of people who demonized the game from day 1. They picked a class and ranted because they were very angry about wotc taking 3.5 away. Because that is not what many people criticize. That is sad. But it is also your perception of it. One is allowed to speak about their experience with the game and why it ultimately did not work for them. I can actually understand parts of your anger. While I played 4e and tried to make it work, people in my vicinity ranted about exactly those strawmans before even playing it. Also without seeing the strength of 4e: -the fighter base class (without any powers) being able to keep enemies on them. -hp recovery that makes sense and helps fighters be relevant. -interesting fighter abilites, not just standing around an do x damage. And so on. [/QUOTE]
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