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<blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 9280808" data-attributes="member: 93670"><p>No I don't think it's that simple. I'll try to move half a step away from the food analogy to a food <img class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" alt="🤣" title="Rolling on the floor laughing :rofl:" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f923.png" data-shortname=":rofl:" />marketing<img class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" alt="🤣" title="Rolling on the floor laughing :rofl:" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f923.png" data-shortname=":rofl:" /> analogy. It's no secret that anyone going into a fast food place doesn't expect to get a burger that looks like the one on the sign or tv commercial & the staff can point to theprice/speed/corp policy/whatever vrs tv magic in the event someone does complain hoping to get a free small fry or whatever as compensation if it's particularly bad.</p><p></p><p>With the extreme devoted to PHB122-141 (BIFTS & backgrounds) the player who hasn't read it in detail arrives actually expecting to get what the ads look like without any of <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9k7PJoNAXkk" target="_blank">this</a> or <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7iSFl5cp84" target="_blank">this</a> and the GM has an incredibly poor footing with little to back them up right from the getgo if they try to push back in an effort to aim the player expectations towards reality. That solid footing is what the GM lost through the shift in tone & pagecount. "<em>well bob you need to read the entire PHB & to be honest probably the DMG too, why not do that while I'm talking to Alice about $thing</em>" is not really a solution for the GM.</p><p></p><p>It's not just noble, any of the backgrounds with notable social clout carries these sorts of problems. Guild artisans styled as guildmasters & the like, criminals who expect to be mafia boss adjacent, soldiers written like <a href="https://tabularasa.fandom.com/wiki/Background_story" target="_blank">general Brittish</a>, soldiers who expect to be taken as The legendary Captain Jack Sparrow, etc.</p><p>There's even a great parody of it and other backstory tropes</p><p></p><p>[spoiler]</p><p>Whole thing is good but I timestamped it to the relevant example</p><p>[MEDIA=youtube]QoO2eI9IioE:96[/MEDIA]</p><p>[/spoiler]</p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes there are places that say words like "work with your GM" like you (and I in1050) mention/reference, but the important reason they also fail to give the GM any sort of solid footing is that the GM is referenced as taking a passive role to the active role they give to the player in deciding through the use of active & passive voice/sentences. It ultimately just reinforces a players belief that the gm is in the wrong by pushing back</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="tetrasodium, post: 9280808, member: 93670"] No I don't think it's that simple. I'll try to move half a step away from the food analogy to a food 🤣marketing🤣 analogy. It's no secret that anyone going into a fast food place doesn't expect to get a burger that looks like the one on the sign or tv commercial & the staff can point to theprice/speed/corp policy/whatever vrs tv magic in the event someone does complain hoping to get a free small fry or whatever as compensation if it's particularly bad. With the extreme devoted to PHB122-141 (BIFTS & backgrounds) the player who hasn't read it in detail arrives actually expecting to get what the ads look like without any of [URL='https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9k7PJoNAXkk']this[/URL] or [URL='https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7iSFl5cp84']this[/URL] and the GM has an incredibly poor footing with little to back them up right from the getgo if they try to push back in an effort to aim the player expectations towards reality. That solid footing is what the GM lost through the shift in tone & pagecount. "[I]well bob you need to read the entire PHB & to be honest probably the DMG too, why not do that while I'm talking to Alice about $thing[/I]" is not really a solution for the GM. It's not just noble, any of the backgrounds with notable social clout carries these sorts of problems. Guild artisans styled as guildmasters & the like, criminals who expect to be mafia boss adjacent, soldiers written like [URL='https://tabularasa.fandom.com/wiki/Background_story']general Brittish[/URL], soldiers who expect to be taken as The legendary Captain Jack Sparrow, etc. There's even a great parody of it and other backstory tropes [spoiler] Whole thing is good but I timestamped it to the relevant example [MEDIA=youtube]QoO2eI9IioE:96[/MEDIA] [/spoiler] Yes there are places that say words like "work with your GM" like you (and I in1050) mention/reference, but the important reason they also fail to give the GM any sort of solid footing is that the GM is referenced as taking a passive role to the active role they give to the player in deciding through the use of active & passive voice/sentences. It ultimately just reinforces a players belief that the gm is in the wrong by pushing back [/QUOTE]
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