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Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition (A5E)
Class Balance In A5E: How Much Damage Should A Damage Dealer Deal?
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<blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 8113413" data-attributes="member: 93670"><p>[USER=72555]@NotAYakk[/USER] </p><p>You brought up "Given the number of things the spellcaster can do, including magnify the damage of the weapon user, it isn't all that big of a problem." I didn't give it the credit those spells are due... Sure lets get into that, but I don't think you want to because the list is pretty bad from the perspective of someone buffing the party...</p><p>[spoiler=The spells that do that]</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Enlarge: a single target spell that adds 1d4 damage to one person's attacks for <u>one</u> <u>minute</u> in exchange for a second level spell slot. The duration is too short to justify the slot given that it only gives +1d4/attack so is probably only going to last like one maybe two fights. On a mechanical level it has the damage die, duration, & possibly lack of +2 strength/-2dex/10ft range "<em>size"</em> bonus along with all the old benefits of being a larger size that made the old version sometimes worthwhile.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">False life: Sure it's a buff, but it's self only & has only 1d4+4 temp hp. If that little amount of temp hp is meaningful you can't waste a spell slot on it instead of something that would contribute & just preparing it might be the same. If you can burn a level 1 spell slot for that, the amount of temp hp is likely almost meaningless & less than shield absorb elements & any number of other spells could save. Even mage armor is probably a better investment for someone that squishy. In the past it <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/falseLife.htm" target="_blank">was</a> pretty ok for a first level slot because it gave 1d10+1 per caster level for 1hr per caster level. Upcasting it for an extra 5 hp/slot level is the kind of thing that takes a mind altering substances to see like a good idea. It also doesn't help with damage.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Magic Weapon: Makes a nonmagical weapon +1 for 1 hour as opposed to previous versions that gave got a + enhancement bonus so a +0 keen/flaming/wounding/etc weapon could be improved. The 5e version suffers from a similar fate as false life where you probably don't need to give just one party member someone a +1 weapon if you can spare the 1st level slot & they probably have better by the time you could waste the slot. Even though it jumps to +3 with a 4th level slot, the same cycle repeats with 4th level spell slots except you add how a +0 flaming/keen/wounding/etc weapon is an invalid target because it's not a "nonmagical weapon".</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Bestow curse: Even though this has a remove curse counterpart it only lasts one minute. Yes it makes you deal an extra 1d8 damage to the cursed target when you attack it, but that only applies to your attacks & doesn't by any stretch "magnify the damage of weapon users."</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Dragon breath: You using an action to consume a second level spell slot to give an ally the ability to cast a cone aoe dealing 3d6 elemental damage as a second action within the next minute.... Technically it allows an ally to deal damage, but the action cost for you not to cast a cantrip & them not to just attack fails basic rudimentary mathematics so badly that it makes one wonder how it passed basic sanity checking even if they can do it for ten rounds (avg 9-10.5) while a greatsword with 18 strength will deal 2d6+4+2d6+4= 14-22 depending on if maing one or two attacks & that only gets worse the more attacks or sneak attack dice thy get A rapier with 2 attacks/1 attack & some sneak dice or even 2 short swords with 18 dex & sneak attack also handily beats it. Yes it works on a 15 foot cone, but the spell is so bad you probably won't have it prepared so you <em>can</em> cast it when the perfectly contrived situation comes up.</li> </ul><p></p><p>[/spoiler]</p><p>So yes.. tell us about all those unpublished/third party spells a caster can really depend on to meaningfully raise the damage output of a martial in 5e</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="tetrasodium, post: 8113413, member: 93670"] [USER=72555]@NotAYakk[/USER] You brought up "Given the number of things the spellcaster can do, including magnify the damage of the weapon user, it isn't all that big of a problem." I didn't give it the credit those spells are due... Sure lets get into that, but I don't think you want to because the list is pretty bad from the perspective of someone buffing the party... [spoiler=The spells that do that] [LIST] [*]Enlarge: a single target spell that adds 1d4 damage to one person's attacks for [U]one[/U] [U]minute[/U] in exchange for a second level spell slot. The duration is too short to justify the slot given that it only gives +1d4/attack so is probably only going to last like one maybe two fights. On a mechanical level it has the damage die, duration, & possibly lack of +2 strength/-2dex/10ft range "[I]size"[/I] bonus along with all the old benefits of being a larger size that made the old version sometimes worthwhile. [*]False life: Sure it's a buff, but it's self only & has only 1d4+4 temp hp. If that little amount of temp hp is meaningful you can't waste a spell slot on it instead of something that would contribute & just preparing it might be the same. If you can burn a level 1 spell slot for that, the amount of temp hp is likely almost meaningless & less than shield absorb elements & any number of other spells could save. Even mage armor is probably a better investment for someone that squishy. In the past it [URL='http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/falseLife.htm']was[/URL] pretty ok for a first level slot because it gave 1d10+1 per caster level for 1hr per caster level. Upcasting it for an extra 5 hp/slot level is the kind of thing that takes a mind altering substances to see like a good idea. It also doesn't help with damage. [*]Magic Weapon: Makes a nonmagical weapon +1 for 1 hour as opposed to previous versions that gave got a + enhancement bonus so a +0 keen/flaming/wounding/etc weapon could be improved. The 5e version suffers from a similar fate as false life where you probably don't need to give just one party member someone a +1 weapon if you can spare the 1st level slot & they probably have better by the time you could waste the slot. Even though it jumps to +3 with a 4th level slot, the same cycle repeats with 4th level spell slots except you add how a +0 flaming/keen/wounding/etc weapon is an invalid target because it's not a "nonmagical weapon". [*]Bestow curse: Even though this has a remove curse counterpart it only lasts one minute. Yes it makes you deal an extra 1d8 damage to the cursed target when you attack it, but that only applies to your attacks & doesn't by any stretch "magnify the damage of weapon users." [*]Dragon breath: You using an action to consume a second level spell slot to give an ally the ability to cast a cone aoe dealing 3d6 elemental damage as a second action within the next minute.... Technically it allows an ally to deal damage, but the action cost for you not to cast a cantrip & them not to just attack fails basic rudimentary mathematics so badly that it makes one wonder how it passed basic sanity checking even if they can do it for ten rounds (avg 9-10.5) while a greatsword with 18 strength will deal 2d6+4+2d6+4= 14-22 depending on if maing one or two attacks & that only gets worse the more attacks or sneak attack dice thy get A rapier with 2 attacks/1 attack & some sneak dice or even 2 short swords with 18 dex & sneak attack also handily beats it. Yes it works on a 15 foot cone, but the spell is so bad you probably won't have it prepared so you [I]can[/I] cast it when the perfectly contrived situation comes up. [/LIST] [/spoiler] So yes.. tell us about all those unpublished/third party spells a caster can really depend on to meaningfully raise the damage output of a martial in 5e [/QUOTE]
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Class Balance In A5E: How Much Damage Should A Damage Dealer Deal?
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