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About the Asian contributors to Oriental Adventures, or Who even were these guys?
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<blockquote data-quote="Panda-s1" data-source="post: 8031040" data-attributes="member: 59554"><p>I made this post in another thread about asking actual Asian people what they thought about Oriental Adventures, which as an Asian American myself I appreciated a lot, especially given how dismissive some people are about opinions from actual Asian Americans on OA. the OP brought something up that I wasn't fully aware of myself, that some of the only Asian people to receive credit in an official D&D product were in OA. which I replied by saying I thought it was sad, that a large chunk of the only known contributors to D&D who were of Asian heritage were in this one book from over thirty years ago, and one filled with some very dated ideas about Asian culture. without context it does put OA in a better light, at least some effort was made to get actual Asian people in on the action, even if it was hastily done, but then I had to really think about it. anyway, the rest is mostly going to be the post with a little bit of editing. </p><p></p><p>P.S. don't be surprised if I stop replying, if at all, being here has made me feel exhausted and i just wanted to say my piece from an Asian American viewpoint.</p><p>-----</p><p></p><p></p><p>so I kinda want to come back to this bit: who exactly are these people? who is this group of individuals who apparently comprise a large chunk of the entirety of Asian people credited in an official D&D release? maybe I'll make a new thread about this—<s>haha jk that sounds </s><em><s>exhausting</s></em> welp<em>.</em></p><p></p><p>without any real context we probably just believe that these 5 individuals are experts in Asian culture, though given they all have Japanese names it's more likely they just experts in Japanese culture. so okay, maybe OA is full of some very dated ideas about East Asian culture, but at least they got help from some cultural experts.</p><p></p><p>but... who are they? I decided to google their names individually and... nothing seemed to stand out. some author citations I guess? none of them for RPG books. this felt weird, only one of them, Akira Saito, has a name you might call "typical" in Japanese and unsurprisingly the top hits included a 3d modeler and motorcycle racer. it doesn't help I don't know the kanji for their names either, that would actually narrow down things a lot.</p><p></p><p>so I decided to google all of them at once, maybe someone has already written the story on the creation of Oriental Adventures and I got... [that previously mentioned] forum thread (awkward), but also the sample bit from Drive Thru-RPG and I finally got to read their credit:</p><p>[EXCERPT]To the Japanese players—Masataka Ohta, Akira Saito, Hiroyasu Kurose, Takafumi Sakurai, and Yuka Tate-ishi—for critiquing and improving the manuscript on short notice. [/EXCERPT]</p><p>so... they're just players? now I know at least <em>some </em>of you already knew this, fine, but I didn't, and it's like really? some of the <em>only </em>Asian people to receive credit in an English language D&D product were just <em>players</em>? not even contributing <em>any </em>content or subject expertise, just "critiquing and improving the manuscript"? what exactly does that even entail?</p><p></p><p>and again, who are they? I did some digging and learned in 1985, the same year OA was published, redbox saw its first release in Japan. maybe some of these guys were part of the nascent tabletop RPG scene in Japan. maybe they were part of Shinwa, the company who published D&D in Japan at that time. again no real leads, but then I started googling their names again and realized something: each search got a hit on DBLP. DBLP is a German bibliography website that lists academic articles about computer science. each one of those names brings up at least one academic article from the 1980's. now at this point it's pure speculation, but if these are in fact the same people it does paint an certain image: a gaming group at some college whose members were all studying computer science and had the opportunity to become playtesters for the Japanese version of D&D. maybe one of them knew English and could run D&D for his group and this got the attention of Shinwa. or maybe he didn't and had to learn English well enough to play the paper version of the RPG games he loves to play on his PC and got his friends into it.</p><p></p><p>now as an aside, I have to say: if that was the case then that's kinda awesome. they got more credit than your average video game QA tester could ever hope for, and no matter who they actually are I <em>really </em>want to know their story and what role they might have played in D&D's release in Japan. I wish I had the connections and know-how to interview them and write that article. as I've already hinted at English language information about early era tabletop RPGs in Japan seems so scarce, and I want to know so much more about the role D&D had in Japanese pop culture, especially opposite of video game RPGs which were by far more popular at the time (or any time or place really if I just face facts Orz). and yeah I know about Lodoss War and The Slayers, and it's clear that when Squaresoft was making the first Final Fantasy they probably used said redbox as reference material, but all that just feels like I'm barely scratching the surface.</p><p></p><p>but in the bigger picture, it's <em>extremely </em>disappointing. did TSR ask them for their help because they were Japanese? was this supposed to be a concession to make themselves feel better because at least one person at TSR was like "oh hey maybe we should get at least one Asian person to contribute to this book"? if they had connections in Japan (and they clearly had enough connections to release a product in Japan) did they not at all bother trying to get an actual expert in Japanese history and culture from Japan?</p><p></p><p>also what of this bibliography that people seem to laud because it somehow justifies the existence of this book? I can't read it (legally), but are these books by actual authors from Asia that were translated into (or originally written in) English, or are they just books by Western authors? if OA is considered dated, can you also imagine that some of the books they cite are also dated and might have views on Asian culture that might be problematic? </p><p></p><p>can you understand how upsetting it might be that the majority of Asian people to be credited in D&D are all in one book and likely contributed <em>no actual content</em> to the game?</p><p></p><p>if no Asian person made any meaningful contribution, direct or otherwise, to the creation of a book about Asian culture, <em>for </em>people who don't know about Asian culture, can you at least concede that that in of itself is a <em>little </em>messed up?</p><p></p><p><em><strong>Addendum</strong></em>: I do want to ask in this separate thread: who are the other Asian contributors to D&D? are there any? it's not like there's a lack of players like me either, and I want to believe even in the early days there were at least a few Asian American players rolling up elves and fighting-men. the now much maligned Daniel Kwan is very much into RPGs, and even wrote unofficial material for 5e, and makes an actual play podcast about a 5e game, though I guess he's dropped that system (and hell I can't blame him). point being there are Asian people who are into D&D enough to write and sell their own original material. hell I remember in a thread a few weeks back someone brought up the thriving gaming scene in Malaysia and Indonesia, and this of course includes playing D&D.</p><p></p><p>as I mentioned before D&D was released in Japan, and still is to this day (though I imagine it's not the most popular RPG anymore). TSR had to have had an officially sanctioned magazine in Japan, or at least given some hobby magazine rights to publish official content, I can't imagine no Japanese player didn't author something for such a magazine, and it's not hard to believe that they could possibly translate something like that for the American Dragon magazine, though to my knowledge this never happened (though probably doesn't help that no version of AD&D ever saw a Japanese release) .</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Panda-s1, post: 8031040, member: 59554"] I made this post in another thread about asking actual Asian people what they thought about Oriental Adventures, which as an Asian American myself I appreciated a lot, especially given how dismissive some people are about opinions from actual Asian Americans on OA. the OP brought something up that I wasn't fully aware of myself, that some of the only Asian people to receive credit in an official D&D product were in OA. which I replied by saying I thought it was sad, that a large chunk of the only known contributors to D&D who were of Asian heritage were in this one book from over thirty years ago, and one filled with some very dated ideas about Asian culture. without context it does put OA in a better light, at least some effort was made to get actual Asian people in on the action, even if it was hastily done, but then I had to really think about it. anyway, the rest is mostly going to be the post with a little bit of editing. P.S. don't be surprised if I stop replying, if at all, being here has made me feel exhausted and i just wanted to say my piece from an Asian American viewpoint. ----- so I kinda want to come back to this bit: who exactly are these people? who is this group of individuals who apparently comprise a large chunk of the entirety of Asian people credited in an official D&D release? maybe I'll make a new thread about this—[S]haha jk that sounds [/S][I][S]exhausting[/S][/I] welp[I].[/I] without any real context we probably just believe that these 5 individuals are experts in Asian culture, though given they all have Japanese names it's more likely they just experts in Japanese culture. so okay, maybe OA is full of some very dated ideas about East Asian culture, but at least they got help from some cultural experts. but... who are they? I decided to google their names individually and... nothing seemed to stand out. some author citations I guess? none of them for RPG books. this felt weird, only one of them, Akira Saito, has a name you might call "typical" in Japanese and unsurprisingly the top hits included a 3d modeler and motorcycle racer. it doesn't help I don't know the kanji for their names either, that would actually narrow down things a lot. so I decided to google all of them at once, maybe someone has already written the story on the creation of Oriental Adventures and I got... [that previously mentioned] forum thread (awkward), but also the sample bit from Drive Thru-RPG and I finally got to read their credit: [EXCERPT]To the Japanese players—Masataka Ohta, Akira Saito, Hiroyasu Kurose, Takafumi Sakurai, and Yuka Tate-ishi—for critiquing and improving the manuscript on short notice. [/EXCERPT] so... they're just players? now I know at least [I]some [/I]of you already knew this, fine, but I didn't, and it's like really? some of the [I]only [/I]Asian people to receive credit in an English language D&D product were just [I]players[/I]? not even contributing [I]any [/I]content or subject expertise, just "critiquing and improving the manuscript"? what exactly does that even entail? and again, who are they? I did some digging and learned in 1985, the same year OA was published, redbox saw its first release in Japan. maybe some of these guys were part of the nascent tabletop RPG scene in Japan. maybe they were part of Shinwa, the company who published D&D in Japan at that time. again no real leads, but then I started googling their names again and realized something: each search got a hit on DBLP. DBLP is a German bibliography website that lists academic articles about computer science. each one of those names brings up at least one academic article from the 1980's. now at this point it's pure speculation, but if these are in fact the same people it does paint an certain image: a gaming group at some college whose members were all studying computer science and had the opportunity to become playtesters for the Japanese version of D&D. maybe one of them knew English and could run D&D for his group and this got the attention of Shinwa. or maybe he didn't and had to learn English well enough to play the paper version of the RPG games he loves to play on his PC and got his friends into it. now as an aside, I have to say: if that was the case then that's kinda awesome. they got more credit than your average video game QA tester could ever hope for, and no matter who they actually are I [I]really [/I]want to know their story and what role they might have played in D&D's release in Japan. I wish I had the connections and know-how to interview them and write that article. as I've already hinted at English language information about early era tabletop RPGs in Japan seems so scarce, and I want to know so much more about the role D&D had in Japanese pop culture, especially opposite of video game RPGs which were by far more popular at the time (or any time or place really if I just face facts Orz). and yeah I know about Lodoss War and The Slayers, and it's clear that when Squaresoft was making the first Final Fantasy they probably used said redbox as reference material, but all that just feels like I'm barely scratching the surface. but in the bigger picture, it's [I]extremely [/I]disappointing. did TSR ask them for their help because they were Japanese? was this supposed to be a concession to make themselves feel better because at least one person at TSR was like "oh hey maybe we should get at least one Asian person to contribute to this book"? if they had connections in Japan (and they clearly had enough connections to release a product in Japan) did they not at all bother trying to get an actual expert in Japanese history and culture from Japan? also what of this bibliography that people seem to laud because it somehow justifies the existence of this book? I can't read it (legally), but are these books by actual authors from Asia that were translated into (or originally written in) English, or are they just books by Western authors? if OA is considered dated, can you also imagine that some of the books they cite are also dated and might have views on Asian culture that might be problematic? can you understand how upsetting it might be that the majority of Asian people to be credited in D&D are all in one book and likely contributed [I]no actual content[/I] to the game? if no Asian person made any meaningful contribution, direct or otherwise, to the creation of a book about Asian culture, [I]for [/I]people who don't know about Asian culture, can you at least concede that that in of itself is a [I]little [/I]messed up? [I][B]Addendum[/B][/I]: I do want to ask in this separate thread: who are the other Asian contributors to D&D? are there any? it's not like there's a lack of players like me either, and I want to believe even in the early days there were at least a few Asian American players rolling up elves and fighting-men. the now much maligned Daniel Kwan is very much into RPGs, and even wrote unofficial material for 5e, and makes an actual play podcast about a 5e game, though I guess he's dropped that system (and hell I can't blame him). point being there are Asian people who are into D&D enough to write and sell their own original material. hell I remember in a thread a few weeks back someone brought up the thriving gaming scene in Malaysia and Indonesia, and this of course includes playing D&D. as I mentioned before D&D was released in Japan, and still is to this day (though I imagine it's not the most popular RPG anymore). TSR had to have had an officially sanctioned magazine in Japan, or at least given some hobby magazine rights to publish official content, I can't imagine no Japanese player didn't author something for such a magazine, and it's not hard to believe that they could possibly translate something like that for the American Dragon magazine, though to my knowledge this never happened (though probably doesn't help that no version of AD&D ever saw a Japanese release) . [/QUOTE]
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