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D&D Older Editions
4e Essentials as a new edition and 4e's longevity
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<blockquote data-quote="Tigris" data-source="post: 9292637" data-attributes="member: 7043270"><p>Well it does come with allowing certain feats if you are also martial, or allowing certain paragon paths etc. So sure mechanically it is not a big bonus, but it is a bonus nevertheless. (I would even argue that it makes sense that you can only use powers for which you have the power source, but that might be me).</p><p></p><p></p><p>I really like the Martial + primal in the berserker barbarian, because there you have the clear switch. Martial is highly trained everything under control, and then switching to primal where you kinda lose control over yourself (less defense, no more protection) to gain power (more damage) for it.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Cleric and paladins are still fighting for their gods and use their powers, even if they use strength. I see no problem here. Dedicated training with faith. (Although having for the paladin martial as secondary source could also fit).</p><p></p><p></p><p>The essential ranger fits for me as well, since he is a martial which learned to use some powers of nature to improve.</p><p>I agree that it is not 100% consistent, but for me personally it fits.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think the Mage subclass system (which is based on spell school) just makes more sense/is more flavourfull than the original wizard subclass which depends on your implement and as that it makes also more sense to have the necromancer (which is kinda a spell school) using this subclass system.</p><p></p><p>My problem with the Mage is that it is not simpler, its rather more complex than the wizard (minus ritual casting), while still being almost the same. So overall for the essentials product I think it was a really weak design. It does not make the wizard simpler to play, and there is also else not a real reason for it to exist since it plays the same as the wizard.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Also on second thought, the base class still has too much power, which made it hard to give more power to the subclass. The "Second subclass" features, as well as the magic missile (and the spellbook) should have been taken away and more subclass specific powers being granted to make them stand more out from each other, that would have been more interesting. All in all the Mage was just "too safe" and thus a bit boring, but I think a lot of people still liked the mage especially newcommers to essentials.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I think it is just a "Wizard fix", which is ok, but could have been a lot more interesting /experimental which is a shame, but as a Wizard fix it works well (especially for necromancer).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tigris, post: 9292637, member: 7043270"] Well it does come with allowing certain feats if you are also martial, or allowing certain paragon paths etc. So sure mechanically it is not a big bonus, but it is a bonus nevertheless. (I would even argue that it makes sense that you can only use powers for which you have the power source, but that might be me). I really like the Martial + primal in the berserker barbarian, because there you have the clear switch. Martial is highly trained everything under control, and then switching to primal where you kinda lose control over yourself (less defense, no more protection) to gain power (more damage) for it. Cleric and paladins are still fighting for their gods and use their powers, even if they use strength. I see no problem here. Dedicated training with faith. (Although having for the paladin martial as secondary source could also fit). The essential ranger fits for me as well, since he is a martial which learned to use some powers of nature to improve. I agree that it is not 100% consistent, but for me personally it fits. I think the Mage subclass system (which is based on spell school) just makes more sense/is more flavourfull than the original wizard subclass which depends on your implement and as that it makes also more sense to have the necromancer (which is kinda a spell school) using this subclass system. My problem with the Mage is that it is not simpler, its rather more complex than the wizard (minus ritual casting), while still being almost the same. So overall for the essentials product I think it was a really weak design. It does not make the wizard simpler to play, and there is also else not a real reason for it to exist since it plays the same as the wizard. Also on second thought, the base class still has too much power, which made it hard to give more power to the subclass. The "Second subclass" features, as well as the magic missile (and the spellbook) should have been taken away and more subclass specific powers being granted to make them stand more out from each other, that would have been more interesting. All in all the Mage was just "too safe" and thus a bit boring, but I think a lot of people still liked the mage especially newcommers to essentials. I think it is just a "Wizard fix", which is ok, but could have been a lot more interesting /experimental which is a shame, but as a Wizard fix it works well (especially for necromancer). [/QUOTE]
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