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<blockquote data-quote="dave2008" data-source="post: 8065179" data-attributes="member: 83242"><p>As a 4e fan I am going to disagree here a bit (though I do note you said "many 4e fans," and I can't argue with that as I have no idea what "many" 4e fans liked or wanted). I do think 5e fighters get nice things (things 4e ones didn't get) like multiple attacks and action surge and flexibility of fighting styles and maneuvers I find better than the 4e fighter powers. I know when we converted our group to 5e, the fighters really appreciated the change. I do agree healing surges and HD do different things, but for our group HS were an untapped resource that we house ruled a bunch of things into (liek recharging encounter and daily powers) and we are able to do that with HD as well and, IMO, it works just as well if not better. We never had an issue with needing to control healing which is the major benefit of HS over HD. Finally, as lover of the 4e monster builder and 4e monsters, I actually think in some ways 5e design is superior. I definitely think 5e legendary monsters and lairs are an improvement of 4e solo monsters. But I do love the 4e minion, standard, elite, solo parading and the monster roles. I think adding monster roles back intto 5e monsters (and they added variety) would be good, Also, if you look at the more recent books, the monsters tend to have much more interesting designs (and be mroe 4e like in that regard). The big issue with 5e monsters is that 5e doesn't make use of all of the tactical options 4e had, and the monsters suffer for it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="dave2008, post: 8065179, member: 83242"] As a 4e fan I am going to disagree here a bit (though I do note you said "many 4e fans," and I can't argue with that as I have no idea what "many" 4e fans liked or wanted). I do think 5e fighters get nice things (things 4e ones didn't get) like multiple attacks and action surge and flexibility of fighting styles and maneuvers I find better than the 4e fighter powers. I know when we converted our group to 5e, the fighters really appreciated the change. I do agree healing surges and HD do different things, but for our group HS were an untapped resource that we house ruled a bunch of things into (liek recharging encounter and daily powers) and we are able to do that with HD as well and, IMO, it works just as well if not better. We never had an issue with needing to control healing which is the major benefit of HS over HD. Finally, as lover of the 4e monster builder and 4e monsters, I actually think in some ways 5e design is superior. I definitely think 5e legendary monsters and lairs are an improvement of 4e solo monsters. But I do love the 4e minion, standard, elite, solo parading and the monster roles. I think adding monster roles back intto 5e monsters (and they added variety) would be good, Also, if you look at the more recent books, the monsters tend to have much more interesting designs (and be mroe 4e like in that regard). The big issue with 5e monsters is that 5e doesn't make use of all of the tactical options 4e had, and the monsters suffer for it. [/QUOTE]
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