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D&D Older Editions
2e Fighter vs Fighter/Thief vs Thief Play Balance
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<blockquote data-quote="James Gasik" data-source="post: 8567956" data-attributes="member: 6877472"><p>If the Thief were written with that assumption, I'd be happier about it. But the books never reflected that concept, and in fact, if you read things like the Mountaineering Non-Weapon Proficiency, you can see, by 2e, at least, climbing things if you weren't a Thief or Bard was intended to be HARD</p><p></p><p>I haven't read the Dungeoneer's Survival Guide in a long time, so I don't recall how difficult climbing was for non-Thieves in 1e. I do recall reading discussions that the Thief was badly received because the existence of their abilities just meant that things DM's decided characters could already do, were now class-locked.</p><p></p><p>Thieves need help, that's for sure, and if you take the approach that their abilities are "beyond normal", that might help them. Oddly, I don't care for the modern approach, which is that "everyone can do this stuff if trained, it's just the Thief gets more skills/better bonuses".</p><p></p><p>Mostly because that creates issues when you try to design encounters: "Ok, so everyone is sneaking up to the fortress, that's a DC 15 Stealth check." Players roll dice, and the Rogue player is like "what, I have a +17 with Advantage." </p><p></p><p>Which means you can't possibly use anything that could challenge the Rogue as a "party challenge", so either the Rogue always succeeds, or the rest of the party always fails.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="James Gasik, post: 8567956, member: 6877472"] If the Thief were written with that assumption, I'd be happier about it. But the books never reflected that concept, and in fact, if you read things like the Mountaineering Non-Weapon Proficiency, you can see, by 2e, at least, climbing things if you weren't a Thief or Bard was intended to be HARD I haven't read the Dungeoneer's Survival Guide in a long time, so I don't recall how difficult climbing was for non-Thieves in 1e. I do recall reading discussions that the Thief was badly received because the existence of their abilities just meant that things DM's decided characters could already do, were now class-locked. Thieves need help, that's for sure, and if you take the approach that their abilities are "beyond normal", that might help them. Oddly, I don't care for the modern approach, which is that "everyone can do this stuff if trained, it's just the Thief gets more skills/better bonuses". Mostly because that creates issues when you try to design encounters: "Ok, so everyone is sneaking up to the fortress, that's a DC 15 Stealth check." Players roll dice, and the Rogue player is like "what, I have a +17 with Advantage." Which means you can't possibly use anything that could challenge the Rogue as a "party challenge", so either the Rogue always succeeds, or the rest of the party always fails. [/QUOTE]
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