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D&D 5E Who tried to end the OGL?

Parmandur

Book-Friend
The issue, as I see it, is that anyone remotely familiar with the 3.5 SRD already knows that there is no IP that needs removing (except from the PI declaration that will be removed anyway with the move to CC). So asking people to point out the IP is moot. Either they are familiar with the 3.5 SRD and know it is a non-issue, or they aren't familiar with it and will just point vaguely in that direction and say "They need to be sure."

So anyone who is actually familiar with the 3.5 SRD could have it ready for CC in 5 minutes.

The problem is that I doubt anyone at WotC is familiar with the 3.5 SRD anymore - especially anyone with sign-off level management authority.

This is pure speculation, but given my experience with corporate thinking, as well as outward signs of how this is being handled, my personal guess is someone high up was furious about the "Strahd" and other stuff that snuck through, tore into a middle manager about it, and that middle manager set up an overly complicated review process to cover their butts and appease upper management. That sounds extremely plausible to me.

It doesn't matter what makes sense or even if any low level employee is familiar with the 3.5 SRD and can assure management that there is nothing that is going to sneak through. The middle management cares more about not getting yelled at by their superiors than doing that makes sense. It is pure speculation on my part but extremely common for a corporate environment.
There ia also the issue that they promised SRds for older editiona...juat pitting out a CC 3.5 SRD wouldn't really fulfill that. I think they are building up to a larger gesture, like a WotC issued CC OSRIC with Gygax's original language.
 

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Parmandur

Book-Friend
I have no reason to disbelieve the stated reason: they were afraid someone like Disney or Meta would eat their lunch, and the hit to the existing OGL ecosystem was collateral damage.
Well, and they seem to have thought "we will sell and promote your material on Beyond" would negate even any perceived hit. And were wrong (though 3pp now have CC and Beyond access, best of both worlds).
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
Unfortunately for WotC most of their revenue comes from selling rules, not selling the name.

They have tried to earn more from the name, with decidedly mixed results (e.g. HAT).
Actually, no, most of their revenue does still come from merchandising, they have just had a hard time growing and cultivating that.
 


Parmandur

Book-Friend
So you’re saying they had zero correlation? No one was drawn to D&D by virtue of Critical Role or Stranger Things. It was entirely internal organic growth?
Correlation is not causation. Stranger Things and Critical Role taking off correlste with 5E's continued growth (it was already big before they came out and growing fast), but they didn't cuase the success trend. They were part of the trend.
 

Hatmatter

Laws of Mordenkainen, Elminster, & Fistandantilus
The reason it was a dumb idea has little to do with not understanding "gaming space" and a lot to do with not understanding IP law, and why the OGL was introduced in the first place (hint: it wasn't out of charity).

But D&D's popularity is a difficult circle to square for anyone trying to run a business. You have a brand which is immensely popular, but it's very difficult to turn into the significant profit that the shareholders expect. It was a lot easier when the toy division was propping up WotC, not the other way round.
I like the overall empathy exhibited in this post. I know most people here likely think that they would be better than the people who have to answer to stockholders and boards and such, but decisions are made for reasons.

Honestly, I am still shocked that the SRD will be carried over into the future and the OGL was put in Creative Commons. I cannot think of other large companies that handle their IP so freely. By contrast, I find the retentive rage here over the past year-and-a-half so off-putting, I rarely come to these boards and participate. So, it is nice to see some realism that is not motivated by caricaturing others into the role of villains.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
So you’re saying they had zero correlation? No one was drawn to D&D by virtue of Critical Role or Stranger Things. It was entirely internal organic growth?


Stranger Things and Critical Role taking off correlste with 5E's continued growth (it was already big before they came out and growing fast), but they didn't cuase the success trend. They were part of the trend.

Well, we would be more correct to say that we don't see clear sign that Stranger Things or Critical Role had acute impact on success. We don't see conspicuous peaks in sales after releases of those media.

ST and CR may (or may not - this is plausible, but we have no direct evidence) have had a more subtle, long term impact, supporting broad interest on longer timescales by keeping the topic in people's minds. This would be those media acting basically as free advertising, but not as major marketing pushes or outright drivers of interest.
 

mamba

Legend
In retrospect based on all the 3PP coming to Beyond now, it seems clear that they thought the carrot of Beyond access would bring existing 3pp on board with the changes
did they offer that? If so I forgot about it. I doubt they would just let anyone with an OGL 1.1 product onto DDB either, so not sure how that relates to the OGL switch at all…

In any case, it is a good idea, in fact I am wondering why they did not open it up sooner
 

mamba

Legend
There ia also the issue that they promised SRds for older editiona...juat pitting out a CC 3.5 SRD wouldn't really fulfill that
they did not really promise it, they said they’d look into it. Call me jaded, but I never expected anything to come from that
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
did they offer that? If so I forgot about it. I doubt they would just let anyone with an OGL 1.1 product onto DDB either, so not sure how that relates to the OGL switch at all…

In any case, it is a good idea, in fact I am wondering why they did not open it up sooner
There was some undisclosed offer made to 3pp directly that never got fully leaked, but having products on Beyond advertising from WotC were part of it.
 

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