D&D (2024) Do you plan to adopt D&D5.5One2024Redux?

[Hriston]

It is the fault of the game designers if they create features that are pointless for a very common style of play that they even promote with their adventure products.

The game should be judged on its own merits as a stand-alone product. A lot of people including me play without using those adventure products.

 

[Hriston]

I don't think you should count on this level of introspection and preparations from groups running published adventures. These are often new gamers jumping right into it.

I don’t, but I also don’t think 5E needs to be redesigned to protect it from new players. Nor do I see why I should be happy with and want to buy a product that’s gone through that process.

 

[Oofta]

If a group decides to use a prewritten adventure that renders a player’s choice of background feature useless, then that group probably isn’t very interested in the type of fiction supported by background features. That isn’t a fault of the feature. The group should have a session zero to discuss which background features will be useful in the setting or to decide not to bother with them if they’re not interested.

If, on the other hand, a DM approves a player’s choice of background feature and then proceeds to have the feature invalidated by the setting of the campaign, that’s a fault of the DM, not the feature.

My campaigns typically have the players traveling to other realms/planes or halfway across the world. I'm not "invalidating" anything, I think it would be stupid for someone to have a criminal contact in a city they've never heard of, much less been to. Exploring a heretofore unheard of culture that's been isolated for centuries? Why would they give a fig about a noble title from a place they don't even believe truly exists?

Almost all the background features, especially from the PHB, only make sense if they happen in the sphere of influence of the PCs. That sphere of influence or notoriety is frequently going to be a city or perhaps the surrounding area for perhaps a hundred miles or so. It's not like most fantasy worlds have world wide broadcasts. Look at the background feature list. Several of the more recent ones like Anthropologist are okay, you have training in communicating with others that don't speak your language. I have no problem with that. But take criminal. You have a reliable and trustworthy contact. Sure, that's fine and works in your home city; I'll create an NPC and we'll work on a bit of backstory. But what happens if you betray that NPC or they believe you did? They aren't going to be reliable contact any more. Once you aren't on your home turf, you no longer have that contact. You can't just waltz into a city and go down to the "Rogues are Us" depot and send off a telegram whenever you want. Performer? Again, in your home town or where your reputation precedes you, fine. In a different city that's never heard of you? It's not automatic.

The background features from the PHB are almost all like this. They depend on you knowing someone or being instantly recognized. They fall apart once the PCs leave their home territory. So it's not like I'm "allowing" anything when I think 90% of the original backgrounds simply don't work outside of a local area. Instead I tell people how I run it. Take a background and I'll give you a benefit but I'm not going to have verisimilitude and logic breaking benefits apply unless the background feature makes sense for the current situation. Background features are not magic.

 

[Scott Christian]

Second if you don't care about the logic of how the world works, more power to you. I couldn't take a game like that seriously and wouldn't want to play in a long term campaign that does not.

This deserves its own post, if not thread.

 

[Scott Christian]

If a group decides to use a prewritten adventure that renders a player’s choice of background feature useless, then that group probably isn’t very interested in the type of fiction supported by background features. That isn’t a fault of the feature. The group should have a session zero to discuss which background features will be useful in the setting or to decide not to bother with them if they’re not interested.

If, on the other hand, a DM approves a player’s choice of background feature and then proceeds to have the feature invalidated by the setting of the campaign, that’s a fault of the DM, not the feature.

There are no published adventures that renders a background feature useless. There are DMs that might not be able to figure out how to incorporate the background feature. Or there are DMs that don't want to do the extra work it will take to incorporate the background feature. But there are zero backgrounds that are useless in a published campaign adventure from WotC.

 

[tetrasodium]

If a group decides to use a prewritten adventure that renders a player’s choice of background feature useless, then that group probably isn’t very interested in the type of fiction supported by background features. That isn’t a fault of the feature. The group should have a session zero to discuss which background features will be useful in the setting or to decide not to bother with them if they’re not interested.

If, on the other hand, a DM approves a player’s choice of background feature and then proceeds to have the feature invalidated by the setting of the campaign, that’s a fault of the DM, not the feature.

At the same time it's a good thing for sandbox games if 2014 style "background features" rot in the dustbin of history too. Many of those options pretty much grant a player the ability to automatically successfully eliminate a wide range of cornerstone adventure elements from play entirely. Once you spread those across 3-5 players with even mild knowledge of the campaign pitch you have a situation like:

• Alice automatically provides room & board in cities & towns for the group through one of multiple options carrying its own clout the whole world/multiverse cares about. No checks, no discussion, no worldbuilding... it just happens
• Bob automatically provides food & water for the group while traveling or adventuring away from cities & towns. No consideration for skills, no consideration for the conditions of the wilderness, no checks, no need to stop or slow down for RP discussion or anything else... it just happens
• After being presented with an adventure or problem that requires learning something, Cindy can point at the GM & just demand to be told where & from whom she can obtain that info from. No need for worldbuilding, no need to interact with NPCs to find it,,, just an immediate "ok guys we need to go this way".
• I'm only up to three players, Dave & Eddy could choose options like free & easy access to ship travel, the option to pull rank with military NPCs not blessed with a player encouraged to decide their own rank, fast travel in cities for the group, a pair of interns to play gopher & animated ten foot pole for the player, a solid fake identity they can throw at the GM, automatic knowledge of who's who of the criminal underworld and people will let you successfully interact with them... and more

They might not be a big deal in a prewritten adventure by virtue of the adventure boundaries & path being predefined, but in aggregate they violently kick the legs out from under significant chunks of a sandbvox campaign

 

[Oofta]

There are no published adventures that renders a background feature useless. There are DMs that might not be able to figure out how to incorporate the background feature. Or there are DMs that don't want to do the extra work it will take to incorporate the background feature. But there are zero backgrounds that are useless in a published campaign adventure from WotC.

It's not about "extra work" at all. The extra work is when I put thought into how the campaign world functions, what are the connections and relationships between different cultures. I want the world to use something more than a board game logic.

 

[Scott Christian]

It's not about "extra work" at all. The extra work is when I put thought into how the campaign world functions, what are the connections and relationships between different cultures. I want the world to use something more than a board game logic.

I understand that, especially for a campaign that has run as long as yours. My comment was more about the times DMs have to bend or twist the background features to make them work. Which, I think can happen often, especially in tailored adventure paths like Ravenloft or Avernus.

 

[Oofta]

I understand that, especially for a campaign that has run as long as yours. My comment was more about the times DMs have to bend or twist the background features to make them work. Which, I think can happen often, especially in tailored adventure paths like Ravenloft or Avernus.

Then we simply disagree. It's not that you can't get any benefit from a background beyond proficiencies. A noble for example will have insight into how nobility works for example which can be useful wherever they go. But there's no magic enforcing background features and if it makes no sense from a story perspective, it doesn't.

 

[Parmandur]

It is the fault of the game designers if they create features that are pointless for a very common style of play that they even promote with their adventure products.

Background Features were new in 2014: they have evolved in play, hence why they have nuanced the presentation in the new books.