D&D 5E What proportion of the population are adventurers?

[Dausuul]

Er...OK...whatever those are. Never heard of this one.

A Tippyverse is a setting where the D&D rules as written are largely taken at face value and as the basic rules for a world. (Originally used in the context of 3.5E; it's not quite as insane for 5E, but it's still pretty insane.) It can be an interesting thought experiment, but it looks nothing like any published D&D setting, nor like any homebrew setting I've encountered.

A world in which XP is treated as part of the "physics" is a world in which you can ascend to godlike power over the course of a month or two--if you survive--by going out and fighting a lot. Logical corollary: Every nation can apply this principle to mass-produce high-level characters. And since old age is very difficult to evade in 5E, it makes sense to put your trainees into the grinder as soon as they are old enough to have a fighting chance. The world is thus swarming with high-level teenagers, all of whom have gone through some form of standardized dungeon crawl. Lots of them die at the low levels, of course, but resurrection magic is readily available once you make it to 5th level or so (making you worth the investment).

Then have a look at spells of 6th level and up, assume that spellcasters with access to those spells are a dime a dozen, and you have yourself a Tippyverse.

This is why I treat XP as a narrative device rather than as game-world physics. Every so often, a group of people will go through an episode in their lives when they level up super-fast. It's not something that can be predicted or replicated or controlled. It doesn't even consistently apply to the same people--you may have spent years training as a wizard to reach 1st level, and then (when the campaign starts) you go into overdrive and level up to maybe 11, and then (when the campaign ends)... it just goes away and you're back to normal. If a new campaign starts 20 years later with the same PCs, you'll still be level 11. Does this happen to NPCs? Sometimes, but again--you can't predict or control it. Most NPCs have to earn their levels the hard way.

 

[DND_Reborn]

A Tippyverse is a setting where the D&D rules as written are largely taken at face value and as the basic rules for a world. (Originally used in the context of 3.5E; it's not quite as insane for 5E, but it's still pretty insane.) It can be an interesting thought experiment, but it looks nothing like any published D&D setting, nor like any homebrew setting I've encountered.

A world in which XP is treated as part of the "physics" is a world in which you can ascend to godlike power over the course of a month or two--if you survive--by going out and fighting a lot. Logical corollary: Every nation can apply this principle to mass-produce high-level characters. And since old age is very difficult to evade in 5E, it makes sense to put your trainees into the grinder as soon as they are old enough to have a fighting chance. The world is thus swarming with high-level teenagers, all of whom have gone through some form of standardized dungeon crawl. Lots of them die at the low levels, of course, but resurrection magic is readily available once you make it to 5th level or so (making you worth the investment).

Then have a look at spells of 6th level and up, assume that spellcasters with access to those spells are a dime a dozen, and you have yourself a Tippyverse.

This is why I treat XP as a narrative device rather than as game-world physics. Every so often, a group of people will go through an episode in their lives when they level up super-fast. It's not something that can be predicted or replicated or controlled. It doesn't even consistently apply to the same people--you may have spent years training as a wizard to reach 1st level, and then (when the campaign starts) you go into overdrive and level up to maybe 11, and then (when the campaign ends)... it just goes away and you're back to normal. If a new campaign starts 20 years later with the same PCs, you'll still be level 11. Does this happen to NPCs? Sometimes, but again--you can't predict or control it. Most NPCs have to earn their levels the hard way.

Even in an XP-driven world most people won't adventure. Why? Because it is dangerous and expensive. Few people through luck or work amass a fortune enough to become adventurers. Even without being adventurers, the experience someone gains through their life can "advance" them.

A youth trains to become a soldier or city watch. Over years of active service as a guard (CR 1/4), he gets better and might eventually move on to becomes a scout (CR 1/2) during a way. After being in battles he is recruited as a spy (CR 1 ) and travels, engaging in dangerous work where capture means a hard death. When the war is over, he returns home and returns to the city watch, but now his skill and abilities place him as a true veteran (CR 3!!). For years he trains new recruits, helps defend the city, and starts a family. He has had a full and rewarding life full of danger, suspense, and loyal service to the crown.

To your example, if a Wizard spends 20 years (beginning at level 11) doing "wizardy" things (researching spells, helping locals, etc.) I would assume some of those days are spent on "minor" experiences which should grant some XP. Using the old 1 XP per level per day (some days none, some days more), this would bump him up to 15th level. In 20 years? Sure. I can see that. Even if that is too much for "downtime adventuring", make it a half XP per level per day and he would be 13th. Just a couple levels in 20 years? Yeah, VERY reasonable IMO.

I'd be more disappointed to think my character literally sat on his butt for 20 years and didn't do a thing that would normally earn him XP.

 

[Garthanos]

I'd be more disappointed to think my character literally sat on his butt for 20 years and didn't do a thing that would normally earn him XP.

A lot of child prodigies peter out....

 

[DND_Reborn]

A lot of child prodigies peter out....

We are talking about an old, 11th-level wizard, not a child prodigy.

Anyway most people grow, change, learn things, etc. during their lives-- most people aren't stagnant despite what they might think of their lives. Now, people also forget things as well (you don't use it, you lose it...).

I wouldn't mind a system where during downtime you could spend XP in your current class to gain levels in a different one during downtime.

There are all sorts of ways you can do it...

 

[Garthanos]

We are talking about an old, 11th-level wizard, not a child prodigy.

Player characters advancing to great levels (several months) overnight and stagnating afterwards... sounds prodigious(sp) to me

 

[DND_Reborn]

Player characters advancing to great levels over night and stagnating afterwards... sounds prodigious(sp) to me

LOL I wish people would stop exaggerating.

Who "advances to great levels over night"? If your games are run like that it is not the norm IME. Most games have the players taking several months or even years of adventuring to reach any significant level, certainly to the point I would say "great levels."

In our current campaign, for instance, our characters have been "adventuring" for nearly 4 years and are tier 3. They have been actively questing during much of that time, with maybe 3-4 months downtime each winter (for the most part).

Even in a much "faster-paced" game, it won't be over night, and why would they stagnate anyway?

 

[Lanefan]

In D&D world there are any number of reasons why one character may have capabilities that cannot be emulated by another individual seemingly of the same class. They may have a different class (Dragon magazine frequently presented NPC-only classes) that resembles a PC class.

Yeah, I vaguely remember most of those being pretty much garbage. Certainly never used any of 'em.

They may have higher stats. They may have an ability like 1e psionics that only a limited number of people possess. They may have non-human heritage. They may have been blessed by a god or other powerful magical being. They may have come into contact with a unique magical effect that has now been exhausted, such as a card from a Deck of Many Things. They may be from another plane of existence that has different physical laws. They might've experienced a highly unlikely magical accident such as a one-in-a-trillion lucky roll on an extended potion miscibility table. They may possess a magic item that only they can use - perhaps it only works for members of one family, for example.

All true, but these are all significant exceptions to any baseline and thus would be handled case by case.

There's never going to be enough of these to in effect replace the baseline (or if there is, that's a strange world ), and it's the baseline default I'm talking about.

Re the bolded bit in the quote: if one really wants to make one's PCs a special breed, the PCs themselves could be from a different plane or world. This comes at some cost, however: kiss any PC background and family info goodbye, along with any chance of ever finding similar replacements should a PC retire or perma-die.

 

[Dausuul]

Even in an XP-driven world most people won't adventure. Why? Because it is dangerous and expensive.

In an XP-driven world, you don't get a choice. Why? Because Uncle Fizban wants you.

Powerful nations would draft promising teenagers and put them through "adventurer boot camp"--standardized dungeon crawls, fine-tuned through centuries of trial and error to maximize the number of high-level adventurers that emerge. It's a lot like the boot camps used by real-world militaries since the dawn of warfare, only cranked up to 11 billion and capable of producing spellcasters as well as soldiers.

The nations that don't do this will quickly be overwhelmed by the super-soldier armies of the nations that do.

Question: Why do these soldiers stay loyal? Answer: No ruler can stay in power without their support, so they get lavishly rewarded and courted by all political factions. It's a pretty sweet deal. The conscripts who died in training might not think so, of course, but they don't get a say.

To your example, if a Wizard spends 20 years (beginning at level 11) doing "wizardy" things (researching spells, helping locals, etc.) I would assume some of those days are spent on "minor" experiences which should grant some XP.

This is back to the assumption that XP is physics. The whole point of my example is that XP should not be physics. It's a narrative device meant to serve the needs of a "zero to hero" campaign. If you wish to avoid a Tippyverse, the game-world explanation needs to serve that narrative function, not vice versa.

I find it convenient for a number of reasons that PCs do not level up between campaigns. So they don't. If an explanation for this is required, the skills they gained during their "chosen hero" period are too great to be heightened by mundane training or practice.

 

[Lanefan]

Even in a much "faster-paced" game, it won't be over night, and why would they stagnate anyway?

Simply because pretty much any finely-honed skill or ability deteriorates somewhat if not used for a while, and may or may not fully come back if re-started.

Physically, people let their condition go. Mentally, they lose focus and think of other things.

There's no game mechanics to reflect this, however.

 

[Garthanos]

LOL I wish people would stop exaggerating.

IF you are capable of recognizing exaggeration is indeed exaggeration then the rest of your comment is rather just a worthless diatribe .... Someone getting great levels in a few months yeh or even a couple years is ridiculously fast in real life terms it is an extremely rarity in real life rather akin to what Alexander the Great did as a very young man not what the college graduate down the block did at college. (nor the vast majority do afterwards)